[Cerowrt-devel] cringley rants well on bloat

[Cerowrt-devel] cringley rants well on bloat

[Dave Taht]

https://www.cringely.com/2021/02/04/2021-prediction-4-wifi-6-is-a-bust-for-now-as-bufferbloat-returns-thanks-to-isp-greed/


-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave@taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] cringley rants well on bloat

[David P. Reed]

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Hmmm... good post, I guess. But aren't WiFi 6 and StarLink being built by people who have proved their genius by being billionaires?
 
It's sad, though, to read through the comments. There's a whole 'nother world out there now.
Apparently the world of commenters are largely convinced bufferbloat doesn't exist, and never did.
 
Perhaps that is our problem? We are hallucinating and disconnected from reality?
 
I constantly hear that IETF attendees don't believe it is a problem. And folks like Andy Bechtolsheim get loads of VC money to create Ethernet 10+ GigE switches that are full of buffers, therefore creating lots of lag under load in datacenters where they buy this gear because Andy is famous. AndyB's company even produce white papers that claim more buffers improves performance by keeping all the links running at wirespeed (the hell with latency).
 
And some of the commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that he "got it wrong".
 
I've concluded that COVID-19 reflects a general infection of brains with some kind of arrogant ignorance, including many of the folks who get boondoggles from their company to attend IETF.
 
But it may be the opposite, after all. Maybe we folks don't understand what is true in this real Bizarro World, and bufferbloat is a hoax like COVID. Q is probably right, and we are probably all pederasts like Hillary Clinton.
 
 
On Monday, February 8, 2021 8:45pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:



> https://www.cringely.com/2021/02/04/2021-prediction-4-wifi-6-is-a-bust-for-now-as-bufferbloat-returns-thanks-to-isp-greed/
> 
> 
> --
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
> 
> dave@taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> 

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] cringley rants well on bloat

[Jonathan Foulkes]

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> Perhaps that is our problem? We are hallucinating and disconnected from reality?

Don’t think so, I have plenty of data points that prove it exists on hundreds and hundreds of ISPs, with more added daily.

> And some of the commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that he "got it wrong".

Yes, that particularly pissed me off. Many of the folks involved in fixing this issue are under-recognized. 

Might I suggest some PR, like a press release on major releases of key components, such as Cake, or when OpenWrt drops a major point release that ingrates new bloat-mitigation features. Since OpenWrt 21.x is about to drop, the draft should circulate in the coming weeks.

Cheers,

Jonathan Foulkes

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 3:45 PM, David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
> 
> Hmmm... good post, I guess. But aren't WiFi 6 and StarLink being built by people who have proved their genius by being billionaires?
>  
> It's sad, though, to read through the comments. There's a whole 'nother world out there now.
> Apparently the world of commenters are largely convinced bufferbloat doesn't exist, and never did.
>  
> Perhaps that is our problem? We are hallucinating and disconnected from reality?
>  
> I constantly hear that IETF attendees don't believe it is a problem. And folks like Andy Bechtolsheim get loads of VC money to create Ethernet 10+ GigE switches that are full of buffers, therefore creating lots of lag under load in datacenters where they buy this gear because Andy is famous. AndyB's company even produce white papers that claim more buffers improves performance by keeping all the links running at wirespeed (the hell with latency).
>  
> And some of the commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that he "got it wrong".
>  
> I've concluded that COVID-19 reflects a general infection of brains with some kind of arrogant ignorance, including many of the folks who get boondoggles from their company to attend IETF.
>  
> But it may be the opposite, after all. Maybe we folks don't understand what is true in this real Bizarro World, and bufferbloat is a hoax like COVID. Q is probably right, and we are probably all pederasts like Hillary Clinton.
>  
>  
> On Monday, February 8, 2021 8:45pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:
> 
> > https://www.cringely.com/2021/02/04/2021-prediction-4-wifi-6-is-a-bust-for-now-as-bufferbloat-returns-thanks-to-isp-greed/
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> > relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
> > 
> > dave@taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat


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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] cringley rants well on bloat

[Dave Taht]

It would of course be very nice to have the budget to do a press
release once in a while. But we had to do a bake sale to run the last
one.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 9:12 AM Jonathan Foulkes <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com> wrote:
>
> Perhaps that is our problem? We are hallucinating and disconnected from reality?
>
>
> Don’t think so, I have plenty of data points that prove it exists on hundreds and hundreds of ISPs, with more added daily.
>
> And some of the commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that he "got it wrong".
>
>
> Yes, that particularly pissed me off. Many of the folks involved in fixing this issue are under-recognized.
>
> Might I suggest some PR, like a press release on major releases of key components, such as Cake, or when OpenWrt drops a major point release that ingrates new bloat-mitigation features. Since OpenWrt 21.x is about to drop, the draft should circulate in the coming weeks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jonathan Foulkes
>
> On Feb 9, 2021, at 3:45 PM, David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>
> Hmmm... good post, I guess. But aren't WiFi 6 and StarLink being built by people who have proved their genius by being billionaires?
>
>
>
> It's sad, though, to read through the comments. There's a whole 'nother world out there now.
> Apparently the world of commenters are largely convinced bufferbloat doesn't exist, and never did.
>
>
>
> Perhaps that is our problem? We are hallucinating and disconnected from reality?
>
>
>
> I constantly hear that IETF attendees don't believe it is a problem. And folks like Andy Bechtolsheim get loads of VC money to create Ethernet 10+ GigE switches that are full of buffers, therefore creating lots of lag under load in datacenters where they buy this gear because Andy is famous. AndyB's company even produce white papers that claim more buffers improves performance by keeping all the links running at wirespeed (the hell with latency).
>
>
>
> And some of the commenters seem to want to insult Jim Gettys, too, by name, saying that he "got it wrong".
>
>
>
> I've concluded that COVID-19 reflects a general infection of brains with some kind of arrogant ignorance, including many of the folks who get boondoggles from their company to attend IETF.
>
>
>
> But it may be the opposite, after all. Maybe we folks don't understand what is true in this real Bizarro World, and bufferbloat is a hoax like COVID. Q is probably right, and we are probably all pederasts like Hillary Clinton.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 8, 2021 8:45pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:
>
> > https://www.cringely.com/2021/02/04/2021-prediction-4-wifi-6-is-a-bust-for-now-as-bufferbloat-returns-thanks-to-isp-greed/
> >
> >
> > --
> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
> > relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman
> >
> > dave@taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>
>


-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave@taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729