On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 6:49 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > All of Jims presos are licences under one of the creative commons licenses. > > Mine would be, too, if I had bothered to mark them as such. I will go > back and correct this. Feel free to reuse whatever you like, with the > caveat that all these presos do reflect enhanced thinking and research > over time, and sometimes contain errors or ideas that have been > revised. > > Original libreoffice and powerpoint sources for jim's stuff are at > http://mirrors.bufferbloat.net/ Me bad; I haven't uploaded more recent versions of my talks. I'll add it to my "todo list", to do RSN... - Jim > > Mine are mostly at: http://www.teklibre.com/~d/bloat/Talks/ > > - the > linuxcon talk is not up in source form because I wanted to illustrate > several of the graphs better. > > > > On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 2:11 AM, Richard Brown > wrote: > > Folks, > > > > I am planning to give a talk about Bufferbloat to the local Linux User > Group next week (http://dlslug.org > > ). All this traffic on the list is fantastic, because it gives me a lot of > background on the current state of bufferbloat. I've pulled together a > bunch of general questions about CeroWrt that I would like to be able to > cover if they come up: > > > > - Is it true that the latest CeroWrt is Sugarland 3.3.8-26 from > mid-September? (My router is using this build - r33460.) > > Yes. A lot of updates have accumulated, I do hope to get a new release > out soon and start up 3.6.x+ development. I'm extremely encouraged by > what is in 3.6 and later. > > I note there is a nasty hole in the sugarland config that new users > should close immediately on a new install. > > http://www.bufferbloat.net/issues/411 > > > > > - I see the "QoS" item in the Network tab of the web GUI. Is this > important for Sugarland? Or does some other router configuration take care > of this now? > > Openwrt QoS works ok on ipv4 traffic. (yes, it uses fq_codel). However > the simple_qos.sh script I have been prototyping works on everything > and seems to be mildly better. In part that's due to handling ipv6 > traffic correctly, and possibly due to the fact it has "nfq_codel" in > it, rather than fq_codel, which is a respin of fq_codel using the > latest ns2 model of codel behind it, which differs in some important > respects. > > It was obvious after working on that that better benchmarks were > needed, which has been a focus these past 2 months. > > simple_qos.sh does require manual configuration, however, and testing > for an accurate bandwidth estimate is problematic even with the rrul > test. I would really like someone to make this available via a gui, > and more people to beat on it... > > (and I'll rename this ceroshaper in the next release) > > And: I would prefer to stress to all audiences that this stuff is WIP, > and try to get them to understand that the goal is to do smart > queueing over top the smallest possible amount of buffering, and a > multitude of factors can lead to sub-optimal results. > > rather than "install this script on your random hardware, expect > magic". Or: "Download this firmware, expect magic". > > As one example, I was completely blindsided the other day, when > working with david woodhouse, by the new GRO network offload > "feature", on his device, which wedges enormous packets into the > stack. That needs to get turned off on linux based routers, generally. > Somehow. Preferably, automatically. > > (I am delighted that multiple ADSL folk, including david, just made a > huge dent in adsl latencies over on the netdev mailing list) > > > - What's the relationship between the QoS GUI item above and the > debloat.sh and simple_qos.sh scripts that have been mentioned on this list? > What's the best practice here for getting a router up and running? > > the debloat (written in lua) script in the ceropackages repository > makes sure that various latency inducing network offloads (on by > default in linux) are OFF. I recently learned that the GRO offload > could induce a problem, I don't remember if that's off in sugarland. > It runs on ALL interfaces by default in cerowrt.... > > People trying to make debloating a router work on other platforms than > cerowrt, should modify that script to run on all their interfaces. > Or... > > debloat.sh is a simpler version of debloat that doesn't do all the > stuff debloat does, yet, but works on debian/ubuntu. It needs to be > better, turning off gro for example on ALL devices, and I like that it > lacks the lua dependency. > > I incidentally note that I no longer remember what's in sugarland for > simple_qos and debloat, what I am fiddling with now is not checked in. > I think a difference is that I'm using a different quantum, am only > using ecn on ingress. > > > > > - I can see how the CeroWrt de-bloating algorithms help protect against > bad latency when I'm *uploading* big files. I'm not sure whether using > CeroWrt with its CoDel/FQ/SFQ/etc. helps when I'm downloading big files, > though. What can I say about this? > > Most shapers in the world try hard to address ingress and egress. It > is very byzantine to configure the default ingress shaper "IFB", but > that's what is done. > > Shaping ingress traffic has been one of the few places where I have > seen ECN give a benefit. ECN on egress, seems to be a lose at most > bandwidths I've tried. > > The right place for ingress shaping, however, really is at the head > end or dslam. > > > > > > - I believe the default DNS server in Sugarland is dnsmasq, > > Bind ate way too much memory. Writing a gui for it proved nearly > impossible. Dnsmasq has evolved over the past year to include a nifty > AAAA and dhcpv6 naming scheme (and added dhcpv6, and has nearly enough > functionality to replace the radvd daemon now). I'm very happy with > the directions dnsmasq is going. > > (I'd really like to get some help on getting AHCP into it) > > > not bind. Is DNSSEC enabled by default? > > DNSSEC is temporarily gone. > > Simon kelly of dnsmasq is making some progress towards making it fit > into dnsmasq. As he lacks time and resources on his side, I can't give > an estimate as to arrival time, but I'm sure it will be a lot more > tiny and more web configurable, whenever it's done. There's partial > DNSSEC support in a branch of dnsmasq, patches would be welcomed.... > > I learned this week that dnsmasq is the default dns/dhcp server in > android, for tethering, and is also heavily used in libvirt and > various clustering solutions. That's in addition to near dominance of > the linux based home router market... > > And for all that market penetration, (at least 1/4 of the internet) > simon and his crew have made such solid software, in their spare time, > as for nobody to know who they are. It's sad, and frustrating... > > I admit that I like a few features of bind, such as views, and > nsupdate... Bind can be optionally installed via installing > bind-latest and bind-latest-config via opkg. > I certainly plan to leave bind available for those that want it, but > going forward, > unless MBs of ram drop from the sky for free for everyone, it's not going > to be > the default in cerowrt. > > > Also: there's a report (Bug #411) that says that DNS is leaking internal > names to the outside world. What's the best advice for closing this? ("list > notinterface 'ge00'" is one recommendation…) > > yes. EVERYBODY please do that. > > > > > - I've been assembling information about the various de-bloating > techniques implemented in CeroWrt. It seems that Infoblox has recently > reorganized their blogs, and the links published earlier this week have all > broken. Here are updates: > > > > > http://www.infoblox.com/community/blog/application-analysis-using-tcp-retransmissions-part-1 > > > > > http://www.infoblox.com/community/blog/application-analysis-using-tcp-retransmissions-part-2 > > > > http://www.infoblox.com/community/blog/router-buffer-tuning > > > > > http://www.infoblox.com/community/blog/rethinking-interface-error-reports > > > > Thx. > > > My plan is to give a little of the science behind bufferbloat mitigation > and also put in a plug for CeroWrt. Any topics I haven't already mentioned > that I should? Thanks! > > > > Rich Brown > > Hanover, NH USA > > _______________________________________________ > > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > > > > > -- > Dave Täht > > Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: > http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html > > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > >