From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-vc0-f171.google.com (mail-vc0-f171.google.com [209.85.220.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3CDBB21F17B; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id fo14so10479182vcb.16 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:35:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=u6mlD4ZxkDnL2s0ggb8I12W2paBDmPI0/5DiSmTNwbw=; b=rF6x7KkeN46NBqEafqJyIQxIwsl2S6Bty8V7ukTvQYZsT9cd73C0eqpLHEQ9fc2iqt FuqzH7JN7wkJaae5fntSagh7tvkxMS7g6s0INbn9pqvEL9Pyu4qbsSWglEp8a0UfUEoX vOMFLKVzEhuwp2toV74hfnGIe+qQZ/+5ulk9whX777vfR21MOrguXusWekVptDqMJwSc W2aHpwQsZ2XmD1d/+cO6wZYtX+a40AvwxQhrG4vZAnyxK1gom8DZCuw/oihrv+JQSV4l RQWmI1KsG39e4kiVbzmjcuQ46xSNC50YVfvk39l+i/DMYcCtgw6J0BzdkhyE8oDqdOAQ DVFw== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.180.10 with SMTP id dk10mr17106225vdc.101.1353944104774; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:35:04 -0800 (PST) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.58.151.202 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:35:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <31933.1353939756@obiwan.sandelman.ca> References: <20121125232034.GF24680@merlins.org> <31933.1353939756@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 10:35:04 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: NcvLRj5QRAc_Oafna9BLs4rB9A8 Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: Michael Richardson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5196749692c2f04cf67adb7 Cc: cerowrt-users@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cerowrt-users] QOS settings vs speedboost and random bandwidth X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:35:07 -0000 --bcaec5196749692c2f04cf67adb7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > >>>>> "Dave" == Dave Taht writes: > Dave> to move the fq_codel algorithm into the cable modem, OR to have > the > Dave> cable modem exert flow control like ADSL modems do. Then have the > Dave> smarter device (the router) then do smarter queuing. > > I was unaware that DSL models were doing this... is this with GbE > ethernet level XON/XOFF? Should I assume that any DSL model with less > than a GbE sync doesn't/can't have it? Any brands you'd like to > acknowledge? > We don't know that all DSL modems do this. However, in corresponding with Michael Tremer about his results (documented here http://planet.ipfire.org/post/ipfire-2-13-tech-preview-fighting-bufferbloat), it appears that a DSL modem commonly used in Germany does implement Ethernet flow control (or he could not have gotten the results he reports there at all; all he did was turn on fq_codel on the x86 geode router he is using for IPfire). Whether this is "standard" in DSL modems, I have no clue (anyone want to plow through DSL standards documents?). I've been unable to find a supplier in the U.S. for this particular DSL modem. Short of bidding on ebay in Europe, I was defeated (despite there being 10's of millions of them in Germany); this isn't too surprising, as the modem is supplied by the carrier in this case. Note that I'm testing a DGN3500 this week with John Crispin (blogic) which has an integrated Lantiq DSL chip (along with Atheros radios) running fq_codel that John maintains. That may be a better option for DSL, as it can be purchased easily via Amazon. Wish us luck (though John's early data looks really nice). - Jim > -- > ] He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life! | > firewalls [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON |net > architect[ > ] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca http://www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/ > > |device driver[ > Kyoto Plus: watch the video > > > then sign the petition. > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > > --bcaec5196749692c2f04cf67adb7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, N= ov 26, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>= wrote:

>>>>> "Dave" =3D=3D Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> writes:
=A0 =A0 Dave> to move the fq_codel algorithm into the cable modem, OR to= have the
=A0 =A0 Dave> cable modem exert flow control like ADSL modems do. Then h= ave the
=A0 =A0 Dave> smarter device (the router) then do smarter queuing.

I was unaware that DSL models were doing this... is this with GbE
ethernet level XON/XOFF? =A0 Should I assume that any DSL model with less than a GbE sync doesn't/can't have it? =A0Any brands you'd like= to
acknowledge?

We don't know that all= DSL modems do this.

However, in corresponding wit= h Michael Tremer about his results (documented here=A0http://p= lanet.ipfire.org/post/ipfire-2-13-tech-preview-fighting-bufferbloat), i= t appears that a DSL modem commonly used in Germany does implement Ethernet= flow control (or he could not have gotten the results he reports there at = all; all he did was turn on fq_codel on the x86 geode router he is using fo= r IPfire). =A0Whether this is "standard" in DSL modems, I have no= clue (anyone want to plow through DSL standards documents?).
=A0

I've been unable to find a supplier = in the U.S. for this particular DSL modem. =A0Short of bidding on ebay in E= urope, I was defeated (despite there being 10's of millions of them in = Germany); this isn't too surprising, as the modem is supplied by the ca= rrier in this case.

Note that I'm testing a DGN3500 this week with John= Crispin (blogic) which has an integrated Lantiq DSL chip (along with Ather= os radios) running fq_codel that John maintains. =A0That may be a better op= tion for DSL, as it can be purchased easily via Amazon. =A0Wish us luck (th= ough John's early data looks really nice).
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 - Jim


--
] =A0 =A0 =A0 He who is tired of Weird Al is tired of life! =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 | =A0firewalls =A0[
] =A0 Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works, Ottawa, ON =A0 =A0|net = architect[
] mcr@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca<= /a> http:/= /www.sandelman.ottawa.on.ca/
=A0
|device driver[
=A0 =A0Kyoto Plus: watch the video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dkzx= 1ycLXQSE
=A0<= /div>>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0then sign the petition.
___________________________= ____________________
Cerowrt-devel mailing list
Cerowrt-devel@lists.= bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
=A0


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