From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x22a.google.com (mail-ob0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE1D421F34D for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f170.google.com with SMTP id wp18so67170744obc.1 for ; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=wKyTnfWQT6IVYg9ef1VTmKuUBfVoxViDsaaHzwoRuO0=; b=inNpw9FnigMbceiihtvdHuwXFyZTuU3qd+lWJ7ZTQIEsr5E6CRfRGU7oay1ofzTcpD xyy+J9Bll5kZJwmDc+qfjAvF0NT2IDp0/x4kHYR3ZoqPW6369v+Wzu+UwY2+AkFoGUFM a1a7BotuRLVggzKh/OdCD/lCYqkH66i07/R7MYuelhmaN6iLu1nluKwySWFz7u+hW7Kn JHa2aSqB1VJeuYTp1qVi5Vqf0SBoUANSccW8FfvovMX1R5H2uW0+SgO07l35fmd+FFGu RLfSILQKevdTHMJbTrdPBC1aZnz8NmlRdWpMSiAUk31s1pP2zxf3Dlh5C2XDhqGma3l9 ++bA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.33.138 with SMTP id r10mr58760953obi.67.1420573809569; Tue, 06 Jan 2015 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) Sender: gettysjim@gmail.com Received: by 10.76.194.73 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Jan 2015 11:50:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <1420565177.062826426@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 14:50:09 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: UWfVZObvaZmk9kZ_vLH7TJ9SG9Q Message-ID: From: Jim Gettys To: Dave Taht Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2cb9a4c1843050c011d41 Cc: cerowrt-devel Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] SInce I mentioned this crew's work in a post, I don't want anyone to be surprised. X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2015 19:50:39 -0000 --001a11c2cb9a4c1843050c011d41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One note: on my flight to Hawaii for the IETF, I tried running netperf-wrapper to see just how bloated the airplane system was (I presume it was GoGo, but don't know for sure: I was on United). On my second attempt to run the test, the on board system crashed entirely. I did not try again. - Jim On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 9:26 AM, wrote: > > GoGo does not need to run =E2=80=9CMan in the Middle Attacks=E2=80=9D o= n YouTube > > re: http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?p=3D174 > > I amplified via g+ and mentioned to slashdot. > ( > http://slashdot.org/submission/4107907/gogo-airline-network-blocks-youtub= e-when-they-could-just-fix-their-bufferbloat > ) I don't use reddit, but if someone here wants to hit this topic > there, perhaps it will help. > > I am very perturbed by the https interception stuff and agree that > they should fix their bufferbloat instead! So should amtrak and other > services trying to provide general useful email and web services when > they too have limited bandwidth... in an age where people want dancing > cat videos on the move and are completely ignorant of the hit on the > network that induces. > > I have quite a few benchmarks of Gogo in flight. They all suck. I > think the best deployable solution would require reworking their > satellite uplink management to be available bandwidth aware... > although I think they could get quite a lot of mileage out of merely > rate limiting and fq_codeling at the airplane itself. > > I note that we have not extensively tested fq_codel at the latencies > typically experienced here and probably should! > > I also tend to wish that streaming video had got it's own control port > rather than being layered over 80 and 443. > > lastly... I do appreciate very much your mention of me, but if you > could expand that bit to say any of the bufferbloat crew - all of us > seem to be looking for work, or distracted by other work. In my case I > am mostly now distracted by non-bufferbloat related, but paid work. > > The fact that I still have to rattle a tin cup to fix bufferbloat at > this point is quite bothersome. With such an epidemic of a problem I > really thought the world would have beat a path to our doors long, > long ago, and/or start leveraging the plethora of information and code > we have put online to go forth and deploy bufferbloat solutions, > especially in extreme cases like aircraft, access in the third world, > and in remote areas. Certainly the ubnt userbase jumped all over > fq_codel... > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > > > > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > thttp://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Upcoming_Talks > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > --001a11c2cb9a4c1843050c011d41 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One= note: on my flight to Hawaii for the IETF, I tried running netperf-wrapper= to see just how bloated the airplane system was (I presume it was GoGo, bu= t don't know for sure: I was on United).

On my second attempt to run the test, the on board sys= tem crashed entirely.=C2=A0 I did not try again.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 - Jim

<= /div>

On Tue= , Jan 6, 2015 at 2:37 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> = wrote:
On Tue, Jan 6, 20= 15 at 9:26 AM,=C2=A0 <dpreed@reed.com= > wrote:
> GoGo does not need to run =E2=80=9CMan in the Middle Attacks=E2=80=9D = on YouTube

re: http://www.reed.com/blog-dpr/?p=3D174

I amplified via g+ and mentioned to slashdot.
(h= ttp://slashdot.org/submission/4107907/gogo-airline-network-blocks-youtube-w= hen-they-could-just-fix-their-bufferbloat
)=C2=A0 I don't use reddit, but if someone here wants to hit this topic=
there, perhaps it will help.

I am very perturbed by the https interception stuff and agree that
they should fix their bufferbloat instead! So should amtrak and other
services trying to provide general useful email and web services when
they too have limited bandwidth... in an age where people want dancing
cat videos on the move and are completely ignorant of the hit on the
network that induces.

I have quite a few benchmarks of Gogo in flight. They all suck. I
think the best deployable solution would require reworking their
satellite uplink management to be available bandwidth aware...
although I think they could get quite a lot of mileage out of merely
rate limiting and fq_codeling at the airplane itself.

I note that we have not extensively tested fq_codel at the latencies
typically experienced here and probably should!

I also tend to wish that streaming video had got it's own control port<= br> rather than being layered over 80 and 443.

lastly... I do appreciate very much your mention of me, but if you
could expand that bit to say any of the bufferbloat crew - all of us
seem to be looking for work, or distracted by other work. In my case I
am mostly now distracted by non-bufferbloat related, but paid work.

The fact that I still have to rattle a tin cup to fix bufferbloat at
this point is quite bothersome. With such an epidemic of a problem I
really thought the world would have beat a path to our doors long,
long ago, and/or start leveraging the plethora of information and code
we have put online to go forth and deploy bufferbloat solutions,
especially in extreme cases like aircraft, access in the third world,
and in remote areas. Certainly the ubnt userbase jumped all over
fq_codel...


>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>



--
Dave T=C3=A4ht

thttp://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Upcoming_T= alks
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Cerowrt-devel mailing list
Cerowrt-devel@lists.= bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

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