From: Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org>
To: Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>
Cc: "aqm@ietf.org" <aqm@ietf.org>,
"Fred Baker \(fred\)" <fred@cisco.com>,
"cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net"
<cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:57:31 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAGhGL2DYYXZOA=x2tMFX+EWELamxBiK0XL49M4MG37+_GFNuWw@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAGhGL2Bzo1Jmq0Tu2t-3w+2m4Sy7BpOkBQE-_C3vAg75JZR=2w@mail.gmail.com>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2360 bytes --]
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:56 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Apr 2014, Fred Baker (fred) wrote:
>>
>> Well, we could discuss international communications. I happen to be at
>>> Infocom in Toronto, VPN’d into Cisco San Jose, and did a ping to you:
>>>
>>
>> Yes, but as soon as you hit the long distance network the latency is the
>> same regardless of access method. So while I agree that understanding the
>> effect of latency is important, it's no longer a meaningful way of selling
>> fiber access. If your last-mile is fiber instead of ADSL2+ won't improve
>> your long distance latency.
>
>
> FIOS bufferbloat is a problem too.
>
> Measured bufferbloat, symmetric 25/25 service in New Jersey at my inlaw's
> house is 200ms (on the ethernet port of the Actiontec router provided by
> Verizon). So latency under load is the usual problem.
>
> Why would you think the GPON guys are any better in principle than cable
> or DSL? Cable and DSL may be somewhat worse, just because it is older and
> downward compatibility means that new modems on low bandwidth tiers are
> even more grossly over buffered.
> You can look at the netalyzr scatter plots in
> http://gettys.wordpress.com/2010/12/06/whose-house-is-of-glasse-must-not-throw-stones-at-another/
>
>
Oh, I forgot to note: Netalyzr topped out at about 20Mbps: most of why
GPON looks good on those plots is just that the common lowest tier of
service (at the time that data was taken) it can't easily detect the bloat.
But if you perform other tests that don't have a bandwidth limit, the bloat
is there.
This reminds me I should ask Nick Weaver if he has more recent data...
- Jim
Now, if someone gives me real fiber to the home, with a real switch fabric
> upstream, rather than gpon life might be somewhat better (if the switches
> aren't themselves overbuffered.... But so far, it isn't.
> - Jim
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bloat mailing list
>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>>
>>
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4896 bytes --]
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2014-04-29 16:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2014-04-29 1:24 [Cerowrt-devel] " Dave Taht
2014-04-29 7:08 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [aqm] " Mikael Abrahamsson
2014-04-29 7:21 ` Fred Baker (fred)
2014-04-29 7:56 ` Mikael Abrahamsson
2014-04-29 15:46 ` Dave Taht
2014-04-29 16:51 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Aaron Wood
2014-04-29 16:44 ` Jim Gettys
2014-04-29 16:57 ` Jim Gettys [this message]
2014-04-29 17:01 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [aqm] [Bloat] " Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2014-04-29 17:07 ` Jim Gettys
2014-04-29 18:09 ` Greg White
2014-04-30 3:21 ` Dave Taht
2014-04-29 17:02 ` Dave Taht
2014-04-30 6:16 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [aqm] " Mikael Abrahamsson
2014-04-29 7:43 ` Tristan Seligmann
2014-04-29 23:01 Hal Murray
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/postorius/lists/cerowrt-devel.lists.bufferbloat.net/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to='CAGhGL2DYYXZOA=x2tMFX+EWELamxBiK0XL49M4MG37+_GFNuWw@mail.gmail.com' \
--to=jg@freedesktop.org \
--cc=aqm@ietf.org \
--cc=bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net \
--cc=cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net \
--cc=fred@cisco.com \
--cc=swmike@swm.pp.se \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox