From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ia0-x22e.google.com (mail-ia0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c02::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C5F821F115 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ia0-f174.google.com with SMTP id u20so1885648iag.5 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=5e/s+5/UlBOAdg3FOa9AbVafD2te/GuBK5W0i68tLd4=; b=QZlETxVi8/98F10kWmL+Sw/O3ENq5aLUUeJ2I4bE59g63dC3oogVSmADgOvks8EFl7 w+lrz6h58NloKHP2Er0i8AsjxfIRY6qVp+Txxd3n2xmv1gtp2chF5JrZzyjn6n1DElsq X2SGQdwMlzCeDBp5J9piHPAHjPiCTUPfG0gAi4X1OGqFI6HECHJXpUBjTobONp3Rpfx2 Z7j9I/sZH0g43cyizJyE/oMHqbp/hOl37VDuAtlvh5PyVSAO1PoV4Ksima5CYLw9KpMV J1EP9pOWMhdW1jV4Vxjm/8wu0ELENxM7C/yOkgieL06aDuzhxDCkdq4Y2cXPgZUuBcE/ cG5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=5e/s+5/UlBOAdg3FOa9AbVafD2te/GuBK5W0i68tLd4=; b=Spd77WOKWFg18uZbh7aDcbOPywWNxK/DEDgCYw2M7Q+557fJ76pSuyzZDMV9GlKT2x FbQ4B/bN7U0sXBxFkkY2vvE3V4Fv5zKfoQmauqmNndhZqcyq4Q22+VYZczrnY527jDs1 97ykwE1k9Im8h9xm5AxrytKaGODQfSVI878QnR4F0LimfqiaPk/u+5glRdsWCUOyULwU 5q6DxODoD8Eh188ngu3+o6h9zoJxoWzqm1E7ek2cAIA7v7QOkZhu1NoKqYLdtGJ1GArb ZGAOnhAQ77PSTf8diosHRhZS6+ar3gaKGsrdMkgs0RGMBsoA4skRE+IilW7k2t9bcTh8 a4zw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.100.167 with SMTP id ez7mr10951501igb.3.1362081319645; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.64.137.129 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1362077224.256114355@apps.rackspace.com> References: <512F9DB5.60909@mti-systems.com> <1362077224.256114355@apps.rackspace.com> Message-ID: From: Matt Mathis To: dpreed@reed.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm1h7iSS1vuc+gapja7BwFp901HkJSqX2Qa+iuZoCtseBYCcL+f9CQtqbM/tKLWiczgJho49+DmuexjWSYVaiugmvCKeV9ikjyAfJ7ZyoKo1CfMdRpUHskBh59kGaLg3BZuw+mmmO8WNk4NbJ78ocZ707FjPAQPY5tD6M0wcPbO5Sj7vY7iuoG0sF4jw7m61ySZ0FwgGvhvs4su0r554T8lPdzuIw== X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 09 Apr 2013 22:39:18 -0700 Cc: Wesley Eddy , bloat-announce@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net, bloat Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] some good bloat related stuff on the ICCRG agenda, IETF #86 Tuesday, March 12 2013, 13:00-15:00, room Caribbean 6 X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:55:20 -0000 X-Original-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:19 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:55:20 -0000 Two of the tests in my model based metrics draft (for IPPM) are for AQM (like) tests. One we have pretty good theory for (preventing standing queues in congestion avoidance) and the other we don't (exiting from slowstart at a reasonable window). See: draft-mathis-ippm-model-based-metrics-01.txt My intent is that these tests will become part of a future IPPM standard on what a network must do in order to support modern applications at specific performance levels. Although the draft will not specify AQM algorithms at all, it will forbid some non-AQM behaviors such as unreasonable standing queues. To the extent that it gets traction as a standard, it will strongly encourage deployment, even if we are not totally convinced that our current AQM algorithms are 100% correct. However, It is not clear that we need to standardize AQM - It strikes me as one area where we can permit pretty much unfettered diversity in the operational Internet as long as it meets a pretty low "it seems to work" bar. For this reason it is important to deploy your favorite algorithm(s) ASAP, because they are all infinitely better than none, and future improvements will be relatively minor by comparison. Thanks, --MM-- The best way to predict the future is to create it. - Alan Kay Privacy matters! We know from recent events that people are using our services to speak in defiance of unjust governments. We treat privacy and security as matters of life and death, because for some users, they are. On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:47 AM, wrote: > > A small suggestion. Instead of working on *algorithms*, focus on getting something actually *deployed* to fix the very real issues that we have today (preserving the option to upgrade later if need be). > > > > The folks who built the Internet (I was there, as you probably know) focused on making stuff that worked and interoperated, not publishing papers or RFCs. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Wesley Eddy" > Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:11pm > To: "Dave Taht" > Cc: bloat-announce@lists.bufferbloat.net, "Martin Stiemerling" , cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net, "bloat" > Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] some good bloat related stuff on the ICCRG agenda, IETF #86 Tuesday, March 12 2013, 13:00-15:00, room Caribbean 6 > > On 2/28/2013 10:53 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > For those that don't attend ietf meetings in person, there is usually > > live audio and jabber chat hooked up into the presentations. > > > > See y'all there, next month, in one form or another. > > > > > In the TSVAREA meeting, we've also set aside some time to talk > about AQM and whether there's interest and energy to do some > more specific work on AQM algs in the IETF (e.g. like CoDel and > PIE): > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/86/agenda/tsvarea > > I'm working with Martin on some slides to seed the discussion, > but we hope that it's mostly the community that we hear from, > following up in the higher-bandwidth face-to-face time from > the thread we had on the tsv-area@ietf.org mailing list a few > months ago. > > > -- > Wes Eddy > MTI Systems > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >