[Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Richard Brown]

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Dave Täht wrote:

As for cero's future, well...

The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.

I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.

I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
better.

I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...

http://www.bufferbloat.net/attachments/download/149/WNDR3700v4.png

Best,

Rich

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[David Lang]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:

> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>
> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>
> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
> better.
>
> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...

I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap this. I 
have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have been using 
Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable mucking with kernel 
compile options.

If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do the 
experimentation.

David Lang

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Dave Taht]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>
>> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>
>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>
>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>> better.
>>
>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>
>
> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
> mucking with kernel compile options.
>
> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
> the experimentation.

I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.

It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
forth.

You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
bring up a new board, this is your chance!

It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092

And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
some other manufacturer.

Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.

> David Lang
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[dpreed]

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Does anyone happen to know exactly what (Chinese) shop does the software for Netgear?  I bet Atheros/Qualcomm have a favorite outsourcing partner.
 
It is quite interesting that it is OpenWRT-based.   The reason I mention this is that one goal is to get all the goodies adopted in the commercial market, and perhaps we could encourage that shop (and other ones) to get the fixes in Cerowrt into their pipeline somehow.
 
It's kind of neutral with respect to FOSS - I think for the purpose of FOSS there needs to be one truly open hardware platform with state of the art capabiliities.   But one can have a much more effective conversation with the software shop than with Netgear, which probably has no capabilities whatever to change the software in-house.  (as I know from HP and Cisco - who outsource all their technical work to China).
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2012 8:02am
To: "David Lang" <david@lang.hm>
Cc: "Richard Brown" <richard.e.brown@dartware.com>, "<cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>" <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...



On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>
>> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>
>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>
>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>> better.
>>
>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>
>
> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
> mucking with kernel compile options.
>
> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
> the experimentation.

I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.

It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
forth.

You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
bring up a new board, this is your chance!

It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092

And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
some other manufacturer.

Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.

> David Lang
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
_______________________________________________
Cerowrt-devel mailing list
Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[David Lang]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>>
>>> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>>
>>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>>
>>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>>> better.
>>>
>>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>>
>>
>> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
>> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
>> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
>> mucking with kernel compile options.
>>
>> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
>> the experimentation.
>
> I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
> need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
> anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
> very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
> clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
> that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
> look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.
>
> It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
> issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
> forth.
>
> You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
> might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
> bring up a new board, this is your chance!

I've got the serial adapter

> It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.
>
> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092

There's already a thread (in english), I've added to it and sent a message to 
the -devel list

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=186781

> And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
> some other manufacturer.

any suggestions?

> Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.

part of me agrees with you, but then a nagging voice bugs me that if we are 
programming to the point that such things matter, we're working too low in the 
stack. It's not enough to de-bloat ARM based systems, we need to do all of them, 
includeing ones that are even worse than MIPS :-)

Also, I'm suspecting that the v4 hardware is pretty close to the v2 and 3800 
hardware from a OS point of view, close enough that it may just be a matter of 
firmware headers being changed to get the images loaded. If I'm right, then it 
may be that adding the 3700v4 to cerowrt isn't going to be much worse than 
adding the 3800 was (once openwrt gets support for the v4)

David Lang

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Outback Dingo]

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Ubiquiti has quite a list of products that could be good candidates for
debloating, as they all already run OpenWRT
and are based on the atheros soc and put out some decent watts


On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:16 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:
>
>  On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>  The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>>>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>>>
>>>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>>>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>>>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>>>
>>>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>>>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>>>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
>>> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
>>> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
>>> mucking with kernel compile options.
>>>
>>> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
>>> the experimentation.
>>>
>>
>> I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
>> need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
>> anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
>> very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
>> clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
>> that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
>> look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.
>>
>> It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
>> issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
>> forth.
>>
>> You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
>> might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
>> bring up a new board, this is your chance!
>>
>
> I've got the serial adapter
>
>
>  It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.
>>
>> https://forum.openwrt.org/**viewtopic.php?id=41092<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092>
>>
>
> There's already a thread (in english), I've added to it and sent a message
> to the -devel list
>
> https://forum.openwrt.org/**viewtopic.php?pid=186781<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=186781>
>
>
>  And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
>> some other manufacturer.
>>
>
> any suggestions?
>
>
>  Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.
>>
>
> part of me agrees with you, but then a nagging voice bugs me that if we
> are programming to the point that such things matter, we're working too low
> in the stack. It's not enough to de-bloat ARM based systems, we need to do
> all of them, includeing ones that are even worse than MIPS :-)
>
> Also, I'm suspecting that the v4 hardware is pretty close to the v2 and
> 3800 hardware from a OS point of view, close enough that it may just be a
> matter of firmware headers being changed to get the images loaded. If I'm
> right, then it may be that adding the 3700v4 to cerowrt isn't going to be
> much worse than adding the 3800 was (once openwrt gets support for the v4)
>
>
> David Lang
> ______________________________**_________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.**bufferbloat.net<Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/**listinfo/cerowrt-devel<https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel>
>

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[David Lang]

I'm actually looking for low power devices, I need to put a lot of them in a 
small area, so I'll be turning the power down about as far as it will go.

I'll look over their devices

David Lang

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Outback Dingo wrote:

> Ubiquiti has quite a list of products that could be good candidates for
> debloating, as they all already run OpenWRT
> and are based on the atheros soc and put out some decent watts
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:16 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:
>>
>>  On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>>>>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>>>>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>>>>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>>>>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>>>>> better.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>>>>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
>>>> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
>>>> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
>>>> mucking with kernel compile options.
>>>>
>>>> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
>>>> the experimentation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
>>> need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
>>> anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
>>> very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
>>> clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
>>> that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
>>> look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.
>>>
>>> It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
>>> issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
>>> forth.
>>>
>>> You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
>>> might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
>>> bring up a new board, this is your chance!
>>>
>>
>> I've got the serial adapter
>>
>>
>>  It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.
>>>
>>> https://forum.openwrt.org/**viewtopic.php?id=41092<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092>
>>>
>>
>> There's already a thread (in english), I've added to it and sent a message
>> to the -devel list
>>
>> https://forum.openwrt.org/**viewtopic.php?pid=186781<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=186781>
>>
>>
>>  And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
>>> some other manufacturer.
>>>
>>
>> any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>  Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.
>>>
>>
>> part of me agrees with you, but then a nagging voice bugs me that if we
>> are programming to the point that such things matter, we're working too low
>> in the stack. It's not enough to de-bloat ARM based systems, we need to do
>> all of them, includeing ones that are even worse than MIPS :-)
>>
>> Also, I'm suspecting that the v4 hardware is pretty close to the v2 and
>> 3800 hardware from a OS point of view, close enough that it may just be a
>> matter of firmware headers being changed to get the images loaded. If I'm
>> right, then it may be that adding the 3700v4 to cerowrt isn't going to be
>> much worse than adding the 3800 was (once openwrt gets support for the v4)
>>
>>
>> David Lang
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.**bufferbloat.net<Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/**listinfo/cerowrt-devel<https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel>
>>
>

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Dave Taht]

As is probably not widely known, I already fairly regularly do a build
for two of ubiquity's products which use the same chipset as cerowrt.

https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Yurtlab

This is a highly specialized build to make it easy to deploy new
versions to the boxes in place there and not general purpose enough
(IMHO) for this effort (for example it relies on babel pretty heavily,
has my ssh key in it, and hard coded DNS servers, and I keep hoping to
finish up dnsmasq-ahcp so I can just wave them in the air and have
them come online).

I just got 5/5 more of the nano station M5s and Picostation 2HPs,
mostly out of fear that these too would get obsoleted on me, and
partially because this completes the expansion of the testbed boxes
I'd planned at the yurtlab in august to a full fault-tolerant mesh, in
addition to the test servers on multiple edges of that network,
already sitting there, undeployed, in boxes.

I have no idea when I'll get around to deploying the new radios,
(anybody in california want to climb some trees with me in los
gatos?). it's my hope that the last ipv6-related bits will stabilize
in openwrt very soon, and I'm willing to make that my target for the
next "stable" cerowrt - what I think I'll call "cerowrt modena"...
(votes for a name gladly accepted) - and roll it out that way, testing
cerowrt sugarland in parallel for regressions.

I like the 2HPs a LOT - they have wonderful range. And the nano
stations M5s are spectacular when aimed right. The CPUs however on
both products are kind of weak, and can barely drive the radios at
rated speed. Also the ethernet interfaces are limited to 100Mbit.

I wouldn't mind adding explicit support for ubiquity's in-home product
to cerowrt.

I would like it even more if some vendor realized the value of the
work we were doing with debloating ethernet AND wireless,
(eventually), and helped with it...

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:22 AM, Outback Dingo <outbackdingo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ubiquiti has quite a list of products that could be good candidates for
> debloating, as they all already run OpenWRT
> and are based on the atheros soc and put out some decent watts
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 10:16 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>>>>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>>>>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>>>>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>>>>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>>>>> better.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>>>>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
>>>> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and
>>>> have
>>>> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
>>>> mucking with kernel compile options.
>>>>
>>>> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to
>>>> do
>>>> the experimentation.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
>>> need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
>>> anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
>>> very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
>>> clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
>>> that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
>>> look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.
>>>
>>> It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
>>> issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
>>> forth.
>>>
>>> You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
>>> might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
>>> bring up a new board, this is your chance!
>>
>>
>> I've got the serial adapter
>>
>>
>>> It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.
>>>
>>> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092
>>
>>
>> There's already a thread (in english), I've added to it and sent a message
>> to the -devel list
>>
>> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?pid=186781
>>
>>
>>> And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
>>> some other manufacturer.
>>
>>
>> any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>> Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.
>>
>>
>> part of me agrees with you, but then a nagging voice bugs me that if we
>> are programming to the point that such things matter, we're working too low
>> in the stack. It's not enough to de-bloat ARM based systems, we need to do
>> all of them, includeing ones that are even worse than MIPS :-)
>>
>> Also, I'm suspecting that the v4 hardware is pretty close to the v2 and
>> 3800 hardware from a OS point of view, close enough that it may just be a
>> matter of firmware headers being changed to get the images loaded. If I'm
>> right, then it may be that adding the 3700v4 to cerowrt isn't going to be
>> much worse than adding the 3800 was (once openwrt gets support for the v4)
>>
>>
>> David Lang
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[David Lang]

In looking at their products, they seem to have almost nothing that's dual band, 
am I missing something?

David Lang

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:

> I wouldn't mind adding explicit support for ubiquity's in-home product
> to cerowrt.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Dave Taht]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> In looking at their products, they seem to have almost nothing that's dual
> band, am I missing something?

Nope. I went single channel for the yurtlab backbone in part because I
wanted "hardware flow control" (the 100Mbit ethernet connected to a
300Mbit radio) to work and to be able to look at what the
"microqueues" in the ethernet driver formed by packet de-aggregation
did under fq_codel.

Doing it all in one box with (nonexistent) software flow control
between 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and gigE ethernet in a single unit - seemed
likely to do nothing more than pass bursts of packets around. I like
the software-fq-on-de-aggregation idea I talked about a week or so
back, but haven't done anything about it.

I'd thought hard about using the http://www.ubnt.com/rspro rather than
the netgears at one point, but thought the BOM would put people off,
and at the price tag for a full box, there seemed to be several x86
alternatives, and either way, we ended up with no micro queues to
break up.

A typical configuration at the yurtlab is two nano station M5s and a
single omni 2HP.

-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[David Lang]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>> In looking at their products, they seem to have almost nothing that's dual
>> band, am I missing something?
>
> Nope. I went single channel for the yurtlab backbone in part because I
> wanted "hardware flow control" (the 100Mbit ethernet connected to a
> 300Mbit radio) to work and to be able to look at what the
> "microqueues" in the ethernet driver formed by packet de-aggregation
> did under fq_codel.
>
> Doing it all in one box with (nonexistent) software flow control
> between 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and gigE ethernet in a single unit - seemed
> likely to do nothing more than pass bursts of packets around. I like
> the software-fq-on-de-aggregation idea I talked about a week or so
> back, but haven't done anything about it.
>
> I'd thought hard about using the http://www.ubnt.com/rspro rather than
> the netgears at one point, but thought the BOM would put people off,
> and at the price tag for a full box, there seemed to be several x86
> alternatives, and either way, we ended up with no micro queues to
> break up.
>
> A typical configuration at the yurtlab is two nano station M5s and a
> single omni 2HP.

Ok, that makes perfect sense for building a network the way you are, but if the 
project were limited to that sort of hardware you will have a huge decrease in 
users experimenting with it.

users need all three client capabilities (2.4GHz, 5GHz and ethernet), so 
sticking with a relatively cheap device that will do this will keep things 
relavent to many more people.

If this can be done on equipment that they can find in local stores, as opposed 
to having to special order it, that's another big boost.

for now I've dropped their equipment off of my vendor list, the only dual-band 
equipment I see from them is in the $250 range

David Lang

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Dave Taht]

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 11:57 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 11:14 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>>
>>> In looking at their products, they seem to have almost nothing that's
>>> dual
>>> band, am I missing something?
>>
>>
>> Nope. I went single channel for the yurtlab backbone in part because I
>> wanted "hardware flow control" (the 100Mbit ethernet connected to a
>> 300Mbit radio) to work and to be able to look at what the
>> "microqueues" in the ethernet driver formed by packet de-aggregation
>> did under fq_codel.
>>
>> Doing it all in one box with (nonexistent) software flow control
>> between 2.4ghz, 5ghz, and gigE ethernet in a single unit - seemed
>> likely to do nothing more than pass bursts of packets around. I like
>> the software-fq-on-de-aggregation idea I talked about a week or so
>> back, but haven't done anything about it.
>>
>> I'd thought hard about using the http://www.ubnt.com/rspro rather than
>> the netgears at one point, but thought the BOM would put people off,
>> and at the price tag for a full box, there seemed to be several x86
>> alternatives, and either way, we ended up with no micro queues to
>> break up.
>>
>> A typical configuration at the yurtlab is two nano station M5s and a
>> single omni 2HP.
>
>
> Ok, that makes perfect sense for building a network the way you are, but if
> the project were limited to that sort of hardware you will have a huge
> decrease in users experimenting with it.
>
> users need all three client capabilities (2.4GHz, 5GHz and ethernet), so
> sticking with a relatively cheap device that will do this will keep things
> relevant to many more people.

Yep.

> If this can be done on equipment that they can find in local stores, as
> opposed to having to special order it, that's another big boost.

I completely agree that we need to ensure that whatever product we
hack on is available at office depo, and frys, and so on. Preferably
worldwide. I was happy with the deployment and popularity of the
wndr3700v2 and 3800, I was generally able to find them on retail
shelves no matter where I went until about 6 months back.

> for now I've dropped their equipment off of my vendor list, the only
> dual-band equipment I see from them is in the $250 range

That's why they aren't really on my list for cero's main target,
either. However the yurtlab (which, given funding and time) will
eventually have a few of everything, and I also hope to get some good
numbers back from the next "the gathering" demoscene.

So we're back at switching to the 3700v4, or finding something from a
buffalo or TPlink that still uses the ar71xx and ath9k that's in the
3800. I'd evaluated one of the buffalos (yea! more flash! Boo! lousy
antennas and build quality) about a year back...

or building something from scratch and getting it into wide distribution...

or going in some radical new direction entirely.

>
> David Lang



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[David Lang]

still working on this, but openwrt has gained support for the WNDR4300, and 
reports are that it appears that it's the same board as the WNDR3700v4. The 4300 
is selling for ~$130 so it's a viable option, even if the 3700v4 falls through.

David Lang

  On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:

> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>>
>>> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>>
>>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>>
>>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>>> better.
>>>
>>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>>
>>
>> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
>> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
>> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
>> mucking with kernel compile options.
>>
>> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
>> the experimentation.
>
> I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
> need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
> anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
> very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
> clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
> that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
> look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.
>
> It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
> issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
> forth.
>
> You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
> might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
> bring up a new board, this is your chance!
>
> It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.
>
> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092
>
> And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
> some other manufacturer.
>
> Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.
>
>> David Lang
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>
>
>
>

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] WNDR3700v4 is out...

[Dave Taht]

Although the wndr4300 gained support in openwrt, it is still rather
limited when I last looked.

Due to the use of NAND flash in this board Squashfs + JFFS2 may never
work, and even with JFFS2, it's worrisome regarding wear leveling....

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 11:56 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> still working on this, but openwrt has gained support for the WNDR4300, and
> reports are that it appears that it's the same board as the WNDR3700v4. The
> 4300 is selling for ~$130 so it's a viable option, even if the 3700v4 falls
> through.
>
> David Lang
>
>
>  On Sun, 23 Dec 2012, Dave Taht wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 2:27 AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 20 Dec 2012, Richard Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> The wndr3700v4 is out, and appears to be a good hardware upgrade from
>>>> the 3800 series, but it's not supported by openwrt yet.
>>>>
>>>> I took a look at their GPL source distribution. And yea! it's openwrt.
>>>> And boo! it's ancient openwrt, for example dnsmasq is 2.39 (current is
>>>> 2.64), and their kernel is 2.6.31.
>>>>
>>>> I think the cpu and ethernet chips tho look a lot better: Atheros
>>>> AR9344+ AR9580(5GHz)+AR9344(2.4GHz). It's my hope these do ipv6
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> I found a WNDR3700v4 at the local Staples for $99.99. I wasn't brave
>>>> enough to buy it. Here's an image of the box so you can recognize it...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've purchased one, but I don't have the openwrt experiance to bootstrap
>>> this. I have built my own openwrt images for the 3700v2 and 3800 and have
>>> been using Linux since the 0.99 kernel days, so I am very comfortable
>>> mucking with kernel compile options.
>>>
>>> If someone is willing to coach me through the process, I'd be happy to do
>>> the experimentation.
>>
>>
>> I've ordered one too, but I would argue that a concerted effort would
>> need to be made on the part of some core #openwrt devs to get it
>> anywhere. The cpu is a mips 74k. It's a dual issue core with a very,
>> very long pipeline, so although it boasts twice the instructions per
>> clock than the 24k, and in simple benchmarks like drystone, rocks,
>> that deep pipeline isn't helpful for tons of code. (IMHO). It doesn't
>> look like the cache architecture is improved much, either.
>>
>> It's not clear what the ethernet driver is, there appear to be legal
>> issues on the equivalent broadcom ethernet device, and so on, and so
>> forth.
>>
>> You will need, at least, a 3.3v serial port and adaptor, and jtag
>> might be needed. If you want to learn about just how painful it is to
>> bring up a new board, this is your chance!
>>
>> It makes sense to start a thread on openwrt-devel about doing the port.
>>
>> https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=41092
>>
>> And/or find some other still supported hardware still being shipped by
>> some other manufacturer.
>>
>> Frankly, if we truly have to jump platforms, I'd rather go arm.
>>
>>> David Lang
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html