From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-x236.google.com (mail-yw0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAB133CB41 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 06:46:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yw0-x236.google.com with SMTP id y65so3325821ywg.11 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:46:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=g4zTAZilYXGSxLWHZhwdNB7kdLi8FNcjZ7CgVGc32Ek=; b=Dmu28VgDmNMjfphA6ZLg0f1taU28yrHZb2drF2o3gnM6NE74sRKSV2vowodcP+gDov qm0gH7Q3bZfEjWnVoCpIDtE6F1mMem1TS6xPEnKfUoBemRx+Y7Soe8fjGZeDF4jA1mB1 IaghcwrUNlkiJ4hk6CqOU/zfLJRwddY5gmSBk= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=g4zTAZilYXGSxLWHZhwdNB7kdLi8FNcjZ7CgVGc32Ek=; b=m2PY9PV6Re4wB21L3ivMokgdGFKWgLRC5F3I2/rhwy1PNe4j9bAJmQ416m7TAUtg4Q 8cajWQObEQhgHiHwESxhX9O9w/Dau2fPY/jHBrWQb4yyPhBMkTkQfRrXy2YMdVLseERu OMJWgF6S7OTOdcIMip99YPCPGZdP5dx9RI5K/JwOEPBHEy6EGdG7w9IJRBZaqO9PtZh4 FoR+9qshvuierBto8LAa4GxYyc5mHdM5PuETmSibYeoyDvK1AM3ZBsydUqoTPNcte/9R REjbrZICydDNu6aISGHVhJiJOihQK+i4JnmqnHj5PmlYKyMG8rlcJIJ9DjEnEZ4H1Qvm HEbQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBVxkDNurt0/JoD7Xthb8uLx/PwcgYOMnMP9FbnkgDGQ+Ku/Vm0 rT4IdJDZ6PuDXqRK3QLEpf2RtDmu9jIiIs/vMRHxWA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x226dfTgAYWFrsWS/t2BXhIKrngwliMxCLe59LwW0L7MH7o9ZQQdMaSY6Q7FEhT8EKvSx1Noq97yJVZZI+fKXyx4= X-Received: by 10.13.207.4 with SMTP id r4mr2925973ywd.454.1518608778263; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:46:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 2002:a25:53c1:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:45:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:45:57 +1300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yUnOr8ym5GkVyoSU2x9PzfTnDJg Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] LCA 2018 talk available X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:46:19 -0000 it's late /throughput/latency/%s On 15 February 2018 at 00:45, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling = wrote: > Aquantia 10GBase-T TB3 self powered, adapters are now available. They > support 803.11bz. > > Again it's not the speed, it's the throughput. TB3 delivers near to > what my local x86 can do in terms of throughput. Also network should > never be slower than disc. Since NVME has been around this is > no-longer true. It's an unnatural order of things. > > Interestingly the NVME stuff came about by a competing teams during > the same time as Lightpeak. They share many underlying philosophies. > > -- > > Cabling is the issue in my mind right now. Every laptop with tb3 ports > has 10G+ capability, if passive optical long run was cheap and easily > available for tb3 then half the problem would already be solved. > > Maybe 10G over cat6a will be ok as the evolution. But you have to go > to cat8 to get anything beyond 10G... so the cabling situation and > incentive to upgrade to future-proof isn't there. > > On 15 February 2018 at 00:33, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote= : >> On Thu, 25 Jan 2018, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling wrote: >> >>> Kia Ora (Hi in M=C4=81ori). >>> >>> Today I delivered my talk on 10Gbit(+) in the home at Linuxconf >>> Australasia. Some specific shout outs to those on the list who helped f= orm >>> some of the content and especially for the continued efforts with FLENT >>> which I have been making extensive use of both professionally and >>> privately. >>> >>> Hopefully this is of some interest and use to people on the list. >>> >>> https://github.com/aenertia/lca2018-talk/tree/talk >> >> >> Great presentation, thanks. >> >> Some feedback. I have been told MOCA is widely used in USA, and this is >> in-house coax cabling used for providing IP based services in multiple >> rooms. >> >> http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-set-up-a-coax-MoCA-network/ >> >> Now, this doesn't have much to do with your 10GE talk as it's not going = to >> be that fast, but anyway. So back to > 1GE speeds. >> >> It seems to me that 1GE is good enough for a lot of user needs. It's ove= r >> 100 megabyte/s, most HDDs won't even transfer faster than this. Most dev= ices >> do not have anything faster than 1GE, so it's a chicken and egg problem.= I >> have a 100EUR fanless managable 24 port switch with 4 SFP ports. I imagi= ne >> anything faster than this would require fans and would bring up the cost= a >> lot. >> >> It would be ideal to have a 24 port 1GE + 4 (or 8) ports of 1/2.5/5/10GE= for >> incremental migration, but I have 0 things in my home that speaks anythi= ng >> faster than 1GBASE-T (with RJ45 connector). I do have SFP+ based NIC car= ds >> and DAC cables, but I don't even use them (apart from occasional testing= ). >> >> The upgrade was from 100BASE-T to 1GBASE-T was fairly cheap and addresse= d a >> wide need, since 10-11 megabyte/s was slower than most HDDs even 15-20 y= ears >> ago. Today, 100-110megabyte/s at 1GBASE-T speeds is actually still quite >> decent, and most people don't have huge amounts of data to move around. = So >> for most people, anything faster than 1GBASE-T doesn't address a problem >> they actually have. Yes, for people handling 4k footage and doing video >> editing etc, they need faster. But most people don't. For them a 8-24 po= rt >> 1GBASE-T switch is fine, and provides a networking solution that is not >> bottlenecking them in any significant fashion. >> >> 2.5G and 5G would be a good compromise, but it seems to be stuck in >> chicken/egg problem space. Most people actually don't even wire their >> computers today, it's all wifi, and even if they do wire them, the only = NIC >> available is 1GBASE-T based. >> >> The iMac Pro is the first prosumer device I have seen that actually supp= orts >> faster networking. If Apple or someone else actually released a thunderb= olt >> based NIC that was decently sized/priced that did support 2.5G or 5GBASE= -T, >> then this chicken/egg problem could perhaps be solved. Most people don't >> feel the need to connect these kinds of things to their laptop: >> >> https://www.startech.com/uk/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/thunderbolt-3-10= -gbe-nic-chassis~BNDTB310GNDP >> https://www.akitio.com/adapters/thunder2-10g-network-adapter >> https://www.promise.com/Products/SANLink/SANLink2/10G-BaseT >> >> http://www.tehutinetworks.net/?t=3DLV&L1=3D3&L2=3D0&L3=3D0&L7=3D157 is i= nteresting, as >> this is not huge. It also does 2.5G and 5G. >> >> https://www.anandtech.com/show/12422/akitios-thunder3-10g-adapter-now-av= ailable >> >> 300USD is still a significant chunk of money compared to the 29USD 1GBAS= E-T >> thunderbolt2 adapter that Apple sells. >> >> But still, with these kinds of products, there might be hope! >> >> -- >> Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se