From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yb0-x22b.google.com (mail-yb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21FDA3B2A4 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 17:45:57 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yb0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id z11so7262912ybm.1 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:45:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=RgXI+UG3gjo7w/0+3zFNo4u1/fXUTTf9I5wwGc6fFQA=; b=LOCUmp7izcK1OPB2BJ4mk4b3rJMKtmS4fcrd/0M0yGutzkRoUkXMInthTQzCFARXMk UN8vwVhUMGgqg5z3o7FFP53+tGipIAh2qMN/6Tl7QKVltKWPLDckGp7zUKiAq7CzyOIu QcZ7a9ol3jQznO3VWJdnTEbwbPUp6ymrcKrmg= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RgXI+UG3gjo7w/0+3zFNo4u1/fXUTTf9I5wwGc6fFQA=; b=rUIBjmgbjO/cuEFf2ehUeNQrO7dGYhrQyB04X1s9Btbjeniw0svRbDGjCldtK+y3lQ R3ae+akQ8QsQK9P7DN5X01zcwrekar+wxxZhqgn7byFdJS4/BY2jBRueDMvLRm3of65d ktP4Wt3m8MJlzyo1GoJgWzKcqY+ZtTh4bL1lq3nLPegHw8Pr4YYOsLz/E4t7ynBxUHPc XhmRddANePoHb3Yt81eMWQouhvPngU5FoWyGznc3QZUCxNChyMx7j/+WV5UBTp8qTGLn rgK/+9CoVmaxsvOlHeWWoCZLroE1/LpgCijhdZI46ibXBHm5QS4s4FZv2RciEACkYjnI eJJg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIogspOj4wbkqi0QgCUO8TfWDLZPICoaZWXQcnIjlvGKLhuKR75 /uQtdGs7D5KDL4rOX1PwmfHwY0CkJEiz5Xe933r9pA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotYvwSQg1iJi8+8wtLaoaTaAIg12WQMM/6He04bG/ASz4Zq2WmEgbmlreTxKkZ+mJp3dYmynZstwJRRXjeX/ps= X-Received: by 10.129.148.193 with SMTP id l184mr8226124ywg.454.1513377956331; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:45:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 10.37.130.65 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:45:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1513372284.081220590@apps.rackspace.com> References: <1513358282.897128026@apps.rackspace.com> <72295b28-0574-40fc-fbe8-97881e2a362a@ntlworld.com> <1513372284.081220590@apps.rackspace.com> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2017 11:45:35 +1300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: SkkyF1wHQ57ir5Y94HOVTI-WTTQ Message-ID: To: David Reed Cc: tapper , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Random thought - reactions? X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 22:45:57 -0000 Here in New Zealand ; any provider operating a 'Network of National Significance' must hand over any encryption keys on demand to what is our local equivalent of the NSA. This makes a very high disincentive for anyone to provide end to end encryption by design in their access and transport networks. I would wager the US is likely to see a similar provision to combat this sort of approach getting commercial backing. Whilst I completely agree this sort of this is needed, not being able to create commercial services off it that are user-transparent is a big barrier. Because for this approach to work you need as many people to opt in as possible. -Joel On 16 December 2017 at 10:11, wrote: > Thanks for this. I hadn't seen it yet. > > > > On Friday, December 15, 2017 2:32pm, "tapper" said: > >> Motherboard & VICE Are Building a Community Internet Network >> >> https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/j5djd7/motherboard-and-vice-are-building-a-community-internet-network-to-protect-net-neutrality >> It seems that people are all thinking the same thing, but coming up with >> different things! > > I'm all for what Motherboard and VICE are contemplating. It's a great > option, and may create an interesting opportunity for wireless mobile, too. > But that's far more complex to fund and maintain than constructing an > overlay over an already subscribable infrastructure. I wish them well, and I > hope that the key idea of maximizing interoperability of all functions > (including paying for upstream capacity) will be front and center in their > minds. Balkanization of the subnets of the public Internet is a big worry - > boundaries will destroy the Internet as effectively as content selectivity > and content-based rate limiting will. > > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >