From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-x236.google.com (mail-yw0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D35583CB3F for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 06:45:48 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-yw0-x236.google.com with SMTP id f12so5716404ywb.8 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:45:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NRrIsjXP7FRr71PxzE8v69rE6s28pgF0rHY1Ktf2t5Y=; b=RAIO8ydDhy9yaOgfQRo1xfHpc32Qq2yBPEjMM7+BFkccBrQHUxN5AYnzV4MzaXWvut AKLlC5F9EY85oQBni3/7CpfoOu2G3Erap39r9jKY+M0ZUeoisiIBstKc3Et37DqKrqvW pG48G+bwQIWB0lt8EOuUzX/o5d3A6WWGQGg/A= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NRrIsjXP7FRr71PxzE8v69rE6s28pgF0rHY1Ktf2t5Y=; b=C5NpZFgiN8oyTNR6cw6VbAUe1pJ3ssjklQo0QKY6ln49JWIa69LhM58CW/XidBUFNw Lrmo0gpPz3cR2/DyHv0PXITRMTHNHZTabkLgHkoqOiJvDFYqXq+cHbjeBqUtTAWF4qw9 RwQecZ8Hp99G5n+odJ1UKkfCQ4kVRLVQiCQ+3hyTEipVcgAWNNoRC/XgG/MonDf99KcP /Ho6ttxVehrQoflZKK7EaJqd19JBbKH6r2HQFYns8qPKFPloyrToYCtBzGcDj75mWPfJ /7br9EwY4TtwF00JkTxvqLfNALepQoeSL5XhHdnR2nH65MTuuc3b9ZKd+Hc84zOFK9ht j6RA== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPDNJbH95A0GghsBT5R0nGlpdajYDovn1u1MkFXHweJCWg31KbY9 L2SBiveyQAafvqmLV8WN/09IA2SasLzCKw1V5XQvSg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x224m26L9DWZ6NZQmflDOqvpcf59PmYiK9qg/FsxC6s5/S26nUVjXId1RZesTB95xz2o/dbhaUyGoS4/rcfDwOUs= X-Received: by 10.37.219.201 with SMTP id g192mr2908392ybf.195.1518608747925; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:45:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 2002:a25:53c1:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 14 Feb 2018 03:45:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 00:45:27 +1300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 85JeKmbRoGHvcJKv88uhDS5X1lM Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] LCA 2018 talk available X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:45:48 -0000 Aquantia 10GBase-T TB3 self powered, adapters are now available. They support 803.11bz. Again it's not the speed, it's the throughput. TB3 delivers near to what my local x86 can do in terms of throughput. Also network should never be slower than disc. Since NVME has been around this is no-longer true. It's an unnatural order of things. Interestingly the NVME stuff came about by a competing teams during the same time as Lightpeak. They share many underlying philosophies. -- Cabling is the issue in my mind right now. Every laptop with tb3 ports has 10G+ capability, if passive optical long run was cheap and easily available for tb3 then half the problem would already be solved. Maybe 10G over cat6a will be ok as the evolution. But you have to go to cat8 to get anything beyond 10G... so the cabling situation and incentive to upgrade to future-proof isn't there. On 15 February 2018 at 00:33, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jan 2018, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling wrote: > >> Kia Ora (Hi in M=C4=81ori). >> >> Today I delivered my talk on 10Gbit(+) in the home at Linuxconf >> Australasia. Some specific shout outs to those on the list who helped fo= rm >> some of the content and especially for the continued efforts with FLENT >> which I have been making extensive use of both professionally and >> privately. >> >> Hopefully this is of some interest and use to people on the list. >> >> https://github.com/aenertia/lca2018-talk/tree/talk > > > Great presentation, thanks. > > Some feedback. I have been told MOCA is widely used in USA, and this is > in-house coax cabling used for providing IP based services in multiple > rooms. > > http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-set-up-a-coax-MoCA-network/ > > Now, this doesn't have much to do with your 10GE talk as it's not going t= o > be that fast, but anyway. So back to > 1GE speeds. > > It seems to me that 1GE is good enough for a lot of user needs. It's over > 100 megabyte/s, most HDDs won't even transfer faster than this. Most devi= ces > do not have anything faster than 1GE, so it's a chicken and egg problem. = I > have a 100EUR fanless managable 24 port switch with 4 SFP ports. I imagin= e > anything faster than this would require fans and would bring up the cost = a > lot. > > It would be ideal to have a 24 port 1GE + 4 (or 8) ports of 1/2.5/5/10GE = for > incremental migration, but I have 0 things in my home that speaks anythin= g > faster than 1GBASE-T (with RJ45 connector). I do have SFP+ based NIC card= s > and DAC cables, but I don't even use them (apart from occasional testing)= . > > The upgrade was from 100BASE-T to 1GBASE-T was fairly cheap and addressed= a > wide need, since 10-11 megabyte/s was slower than most HDDs even 15-20 ye= ars > ago. Today, 100-110megabyte/s at 1GBASE-T speeds is actually still quite > decent, and most people don't have huge amounts of data to move around. S= o > for most people, anything faster than 1GBASE-T doesn't address a problem > they actually have. Yes, for people handling 4k footage and doing video > editing etc, they need faster. But most people don't. For them a 8-24 por= t > 1GBASE-T switch is fine, and provides a networking solution that is not > bottlenecking them in any significant fashion. > > 2.5G and 5G would be a good compromise, but it seems to be stuck in > chicken/egg problem space. Most people actually don't even wire their > computers today, it's all wifi, and even if they do wire them, the only N= IC > available is 1GBASE-T based. > > The iMac Pro is the first prosumer device I have seen that actually suppo= rts > faster networking. If Apple or someone else actually released a thunderbo= lt > based NIC that was decently sized/priced that did support 2.5G or 5GBASE-= T, > then this chicken/egg problem could perhaps be solved. Most people don't > feel the need to connect these kinds of things to their laptop: > > https://www.startech.com/uk/Networking-IO/Adapter-Cards/thunderbolt-3-10-= gbe-nic-chassis~BNDTB310GNDP > https://www.akitio.com/adapters/thunder2-10g-network-adapter > https://www.promise.com/Products/SANLink/SANLink2/10G-BaseT > > http://www.tehutinetworks.net/?t=3DLV&L1=3D3&L2=3D0&L3=3D0&L7=3D157 is in= teresting, as > this is not huge. It also does 2.5G and 5G. > > https://www.anandtech.com/show/12422/akitios-thunder3-10g-adapter-now-ava= ilable > > 300USD is still a significant chunk of money compared to the 29USD 1GBASE= -T > thunderbolt2 adapter that Apple sells. > > But still, with these kinds of products, there might be hope! > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se