From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-x229.google.com (mail-qc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E90B21F568 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id r5so66018qcx.0 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:49:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aenertia.net; s=dkimaenertianet; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=IT+7684v/zAjAegm+C2BtFw8hJJGC7rfCZqA3rmClJE=; b=IMHdHZkuG4UdzKeh+7TRcPctGA9xRMbLvSCJ04vLcP+Wtepv+YZ2CD2FvoR/TkTvRn 4KenMFuvmKgtzSloGRlDimPrX4mszYWni+n1uAHWMFS6Uy29PWvrH2vShrTVEKMTqzkw F4qvYl8djd/lLlKbeNY+uMR8CQjjpmvMGjRQQ= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=IT+7684v/zAjAegm+C2BtFw8hJJGC7rfCZqA3rmClJE=; b=PFkrtpQuXVhnu12V3jvnoX20z+zxmkK6uf+gpLIQJU9VTVe9JYM+gkJK734Y9Xh8T9 WPGWD9qNEHUwAO6RJH4XSA+C6lwS1tCeMG/VUBCWM/TacLvU5O1PKZo7pMjRu6wvQLWv yGYngNXRJnaJm5il46brvv7HkQ5exf5oV4FCffFE/S4u9utA7tBhLhmVEcoPotJIUk7h s7NqF7e0nFDcY70soCcgHPJ3r4WS/h4X2DS33O1t6cGaCLvlcYS0hT9ajnfpZgrI0oVy qSqE7WhJ9pkyfi7ky2ZTqlQ36KmbZDfly4ugqlUYpmLCyQzbTuLf2wOItzA9tDgXf9S+ yIXw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlL8HkECaLKzZ02SWbNG22wevgMobUwSJ1urgkfhtfcXtVyC2CeLv4r0k23vZbQGXAiVnHQ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.248.68 with SMTP id mf4mr7009641qcb.11.1410486557307; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Sender: aenertia@aenertia.net Received: by 10.96.63.229 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.63.229 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 18:49:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1410485067.393724599@apps.rackspace.com> References: <1410482143.8059509@apps.rackspace.com> <45F70DEB-F0FE-45EA-8D27-EEF7C523476B@gmail.com> <1410485067.393724599@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:49:17 +1200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: _TutFnsdYaR79KatJlJ97QMSPdU Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= To: dpreed@reed.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113338383592930502d47e87 Cc: Wes Felter , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , Jonathan Morton , bloat Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Fixing bufferbloat: How about an open letter to the web benchmarkers? X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 01:49:46 -0000 --001a113338383592930502d47e87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Changing to better test suites isn't the answer, I know I've tried a lot to educate and push for bespoke test sites for our customers . This is all about happy illusions on the user side. This is a branding and markets problem. In NZ, 'the' site for reference that users go to is speedtest. Because of that RSPs deploy more speedtest servers on their networks and you end up with a vicious cycle. Get enough user driven complaints and you end up having a user driven push to make your network 'look good' by doing otherwise silly things. So if ookla implemented a udp based test, changed it's statical weighting and data mining methods overnight. At least in NZ that might help. For the RSPs it is always going to be easier to modify a buffer or queue somewhere. And that is going to make their project managers and stakeholders happier straight away. -Joel On 12 Sep 2014 13:24, wrote: > The speedof.me API probably can be used directly as the measurement of > download and upload - you can create a competing download or upload in > Javascript using a WebWorker talking to another server that supports the > websocket API to force buffer overflow. (sort of poor man's RRUL). > > > > The speedof.me API would give you the measured performance, while the > other path would just be aan easier to code test load to a source/sink. > > > > Not sure that would help, but for a prototype it's not bad. > > > > On Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:42pm, "Jonathan Morton" < > chromatix99@gmail.com> said: > > > > > On 12 Sep, 2014, at 3:35 am, dpreed@reed.com wrote: > > > > > Among friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friends > > probably would like to see how the measurement would work. > > > > Could we make use of the existing test servers (running netperf) for that > > demonstration? How hard is the protocol to fake in Javascript? > > > > Or would a netperf-wrapper demonstration suffice? We've already got > that, but > > we'd need to extract the single-figures-of-merit from the data. > > > > I wonder if the speedof.me API can already be tricked into doing the > right thing? > > > > - Jonathan Morton > > > > > --001a113338383592930502d47e87 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Changing to better test suites isn't the answer, I know = I've tried a lot to educate and push for bespoke test sites for our cus= tomers .

This is all about happy illusions on the user side.

This is a branding and markets problem. In NZ, 'the'= site for reference that users go to is speedtest. Because of that RSPs dep= loy more speedtest servers on their networks and you end up with a vicious = cycle. Get enough user driven complaints and you end up having a user drive= n push to make your network 'look good' by doing otherwise silly th= ings.

So if ookla implemented a udp based test, changed it's s= tatical weighting and data mining methods overnight. At least in NZ that mi= ght help.=C2=A0

For the RSPs it is always going to be easier to modify a buf= fer or queue somewhere. And that is going to make their project managers an= d stakeholders happier straight away.

-Joel

On 12 Sep 2014 13:24, <dpreed@reed.com> wrote:

The speedof.me API probably can be used d= irectly as the measurement of download and upload - you can create a compet= ing download or upload in Javascript using a WebWorker talking to another s= erver that supports the websocket API to force buffer overflow. =C2=A0(sort= of poor man's RRUL).

=C2=A0

The speedof.me API would give you the measured performance, while the other path would = just be aan easier to code test load to a source/sink.

=C2=A0

Not sure that would help, but for a prototype it's not bad.<= /p>



On Thursday, September 11, 2014 8:42pm, "Jonathan M= orton" <= chromatix99@gmail.com> said:

>
> On 12 Sep, 2014, at 3:35 am, dpreed@reed.com wrote:
>
>= > Among friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friend= s
> probably would like to see how the measurement would work.
>= ;
> Could we make use of the existing test servers (running netperf)= for that
> demonstration? How hard is the protocol to fake in Javasc= ript?
>
> Or would a netperf-wrapper demonstration suffice? We= 've already got that, but
> we'd need to extract the single-f= igures-of-merit from the data.
>
> I wonder if the speedof.me API can already be tric= ked into doing the right thing?
>
> - Jonathan Morton
> =
>

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