Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10gige and 2.5gige

["Joel Wirāmu Pauling" <joel@aenertia.net>]

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The XG PON ONT units from Nokia/Huawei are coming with only 10G NbaseT
(usually singular port) only in the consumer access space. No SFP+

We have rolled out XG PON on the PON side to 70% of the country here  (NZ)
over the last 2 years. Only a small % of that are actually making use of
the XGPON on the consumer side and retailers vary in offering it as a
service mainly due to having to truck roll a new ONT and lack of in home
10G kit on the market. But the access network is there.

Similar stories in other regions I know of that offer XGPon - lack of
consumer demand, lack of ONTs in the market that are suitable for
residential use.







On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 9:18 pm Sebastian Moeller, <moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:

> To add to Joel's point,
>
> I can do my own catX cable runs and connect sockets/plugs to the cables,
> but I lack the tools for fiber-splicing... as cool as that would be it is
> going to be hard to justify multi-100s EUR for a splicer.. That still
> leaves short distance in the main computing area of an appartment/house,
> but I doubt that many consumers have a concentration high enough to justify
> the costs even there.
>
> What I do see over here in Europe, with FTTH-roll out speeding up, is CPE
> that offer SFP/SFP+ cages for the WAN side though, SFP+ becoming more
> common since ISPs started to deploy XGS-PON (gross 10Gpbs bidirectionally,
> after FEC ~8.5 Gbps).
>
>
> Regards
>         Sebastian
>
> P.S.: I have not started jumping on the 2.5 Gbps or higher train just yet,
> none of my devices seems massively underserved with just 1Gbps yet (with
> the potential exception of a single link where >= 2Gbps would be nice since
> I am one cabe short and >2Gbps would allow to multiplex two 1Gbps
> connections over that cable).
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 2021, at 22:57, Joel Wirāmu Pauling <joel@aenertia.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > Yes but as much as I like fibre; it's too fragile for the average
> household structured cabling real world use case. Not to mention nothing
> consumwe comes with SFP+ in the home space.
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Dec 2021, 10:43 am David Lang, <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> > another valuable featur of fiber for home use is that fiber can't
> contribute to
> > ground loops the way that copper cables can.
> >
> > and for the paranoid (like me :-) ) fiber also means that any electrical
> > disaster that happens to one end won't propgate through and fry other
> equipment
> >
> > David Lang
> >
> > On Thu, 16 Dec 2021, David P. Reed wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, That's good to know...The whole SFP+ adapter concept has
> seemed to me to be a "tweener" in hardware design space. Too many failure
> points. That said, I like fiber's properties as a medium for distances.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thursday, December 16, 2021 2:31pm, "Joel Wirāmu Pauling" <
> joel@aenertia.net> said:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Heat issues you mention with UTP are gone; with the [ 803.bz ](
> http://803.bz ) stuff (i.e Base-N).
> > > It was mostly due to the 10G-Base-T spec being old and out of line
> with the SFP+ spec ; which led to higher power consumption than SFP+ cages
> were rated to draw and aforementioned heat problems; this is not a problem
> with newer kit.
> > > It went away with the move to smaller silicon processes and now UTP
> based 10G in the home devices are more common and don't suffer from the
> fragility issues of the earlier copper based 10G spec. The AQC chipsets
> were the first to introduce it but most other vendors have finally picked
> it up after 5 years or feet dragging.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:16 AM David P. Reed <[ dpreed@deepplum.com
> ]( mailto:dpreed@deepplum.com )> wrote:
> > > Yes, it's very cheap and getting cheaper.
> > >
> > > Since its price fell to the point I thought was cheap, my home has a
> 10 GigE fiber backbone, 2 switches in my main centers of computers, lots of
> 10 GigE NICs in servers, and even dual 10 GigE adapters in a Thunderbolt 3
> external adapter for my primary desktop, which is a Skull Canyon NUC.
> > >
> > > I strongly recommend people use fiber and sfp+ DAC cabling because
> twisted pair, while cheaper, actually is problematic at speeds above 1 Gig
> - mostly due to power and heat.
> > >
> > > BTW, it's worth pointing out that USB 3.1 can handle 10 Gb/sec, too,
> and USB-C connectors and cables can carry Thunderbolt at higher rates.
> Those adapters are REALLY CHEAP. There's nothing inherently different about
> the electronics, if anything, USB 3.1 is more complicate logic than the
> ethernet MAC.
> > >
> > > So the reason 10 GigE is still far more expensive than USB 3.1 is
> mainly market volume - if 10 GigE were a consumer product, not a datacenter
> product, you'd think it would already be as cheap as USB 3.1 in computers
> and switches.
> > >
> > > Since DOCSIS can support up to 5 Gb/s, I think, when will Internet
> Access Providers start offering "Cable Modems" that support customers who
> want more than "a full Gig"? Given all the current DOCSIS 3 CMTS's etc. out
> there, it's just a configuration change.
> > >
> > > So when will consumer "routers" support 5 Gig, 10 Gig?
> > >
> > > On Thursday, December 16, 2021 11:20am, "Dave Taht" <[
> dave.taht@gmail.com ]( mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com )> said:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> has really got cheap.
> > >>
> > >> [ https://www.tomshardware.com/news/innodisk-m2-2280-10gbe-adapter
> ]( https://www.tomshardware.com/news/innodisk-m2-2280-10gbe-adapter )
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand users are reporting issues with actually using
> > >> 2.5ghz cable with this router in particular, halving the achieved rate
> > >> by negotiating 2.5gbit vs negotiating 1gbit.
> > >>
> > >> [ https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=179145#p897836 ](
> https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=179145#p897836 )
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> I tried to build a better future, a few times:
> > >> [ https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org ](
> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org )
> > >>
> > >> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> > >> [ Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net ]( mailto:
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net )
> > >> [ https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel ](
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel )
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