From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ie0-x233.google.com (mail-ie0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BE5321F13F; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f179.google.com with SMTP id lx4so505453iec.24 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:51:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=B7V5ZEuAJGPWz7GyV4qb0I7Km0pNE0rtp3AeMIrCEWU=; b=ZiSiv/pB1FbClu5FbIna/MWGhIK9s/k32fyaKP5ftmkWT6bO7lSTHxh59AoLspPadY qVZXzWgqS/jLjACAdLgjxJcM03LnVdoyLCXku2HeAK+CQG6O7HNzqD/HjPd9qfTKSpAD XB0TYuDux6k94vRoSGlIPmXaR50qkWIfevwXmIPOJSuRQNkNrfQ1KCWQshQWod0LaDOj ZPAr1MFljPxPWl3Ro63/BgFZcdOdJ7Wy4yapdCrKh2PTZE46/YAAX0MZAEY0wAP77uMq ZIQNC2B1V02Ha89gzyIXJphySOKxvAQy/VkMoL0a83eaQWoMlCox+SR2lUfXNktpqA6n 3vNw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.42.44.4 with SMTP id z4mr30738654ice.34.1398790282986; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.59.165 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:51:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <4130D000-FE28-4A5E-B824-3371C1602472@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:51:22 +0200 Message-ID: From: Aaron Wood To: Dave Taht Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec5197091eecc9504f8313d4c Cc: bloat , "aqm@ietf.org" , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [aqm] the side effects of 330ms lag in the real world X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:51:28 -0000 --bcaec5197091eecc9504f8313d4c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > Yes, but as soon as you hit the long distance network the latency is the > > same regardless of access method. So while I agree that understanding the > > effect of latency is important, it's no longer a meaningful way of > selling > > fiber access. If your last-mile is fiber instead of ADSL2+ won't improve > > your long distance latency. > > Well, it chops a great deal from the baseline physical latency, and most > people tend to access resources closer to them than farther away. An > american in paris might want to access the NYT, but Parisians La Monde. > > Similarly most major websites are replicated and use CDNs to distribute > their data closer to the user. The physical RTT matters more and more > in the last mile the more resources are co-located in the local data > center. With my DSL connection, 80% of the latency to "most" things (dns, cdns, etc) is between the modem and dslam. That's a place where fiber would fare far better. I get 20-25ms to the first router after the dsl modem, and then akamai and google are within 3-5ms of that. (and was that american-in-paris comment aimed at me? ;) La Monde is, amusingly, about 150ms from me here in Paris. But nytimes.comis 270-280... And the CDN used by lamonde.fr is 60ms away. And 20-25ms of all of that is DSL overhead. -Aaron --bcaec5197091eecc9504f8313d4c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Apr 29, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
> Yes, b= ut as soon as you hit the long distance network the latency is the
> same regardless of access method. So while I agree that understanding = the
> effect of latency is important, it's no longer a meaningful way of= selling
> fiber access. If your last-mile is fiber instead of ADSL2+ won't i= mprove
> your long distance latency.

Well, it chops a great deal from the baseline physical latency, and m= ost
people tend to access resources closer to them than farther away. An
american in paris might want to access the NYT, but Parisians La Monde.

Similarly most major websites are replicated and use CDNs to distribute
their data closer to the user. The physical RTT matters more and more
in the last mile the more resources are co-located in the local data center= .

With my DSL connection, 80% of the latenc= y to "most" things (dns, cdns, etc) is between the modem and dsla= m. =C2=A0That's a place where fiber would fare far better. =C2=A0I get = 20-25ms to the first router after the dsl modem, and then akamai and google= are within 3-5ms of that.

(and was that american-in-paris comment aimed at me? = =C2=A0;)

La Monde is, amusingly, about 150ms from = me here in Paris. =C2=A0But nytimes.com = is 270-280...

And the CDN used by lamon= de.fr is 60ms away.

And 20-25ms of all of that= is DSL overhead.

-Aaron
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