Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Charles Rothschild]

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Hey Guys, I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw wise?
 The Apu2 won't cut it.  Thank you so much, Charlie

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 16 Mar, 2021, at 8:26 pm, Charles Rothschild via Cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw wise?

At present I would strongly consider a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB3 GigE second Ethernet port.  That doesn't give you a high-performance wifi AP, but it'll handle the speed just fine, with SQM, over Ethernet.  You should be able to attach a dedicated bridge AP to it.

 - Jonathan Morton

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Dave Taht]

Is that based on measurements?

I did not care for the pi3's behavior much.

On Tue, Mar 16, 2021 at 3:03 PM Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 16 Mar, 2021, at 8:26 pm, Charles Rothschild via Cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw wise?
>
> At present I would strongly consider a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB3 GigE second Ethernet port.  That doesn't give you a high-performance wifi AP, but it'll handle the speed just fine, with SQM, over Ethernet.  You should be able to attach a dedicated bridge AP to it.
>
>  - Jonathan Morton
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



-- 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public
relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman

dave@taht.net <Dave Täht> CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 17 Mar, 2021, at 12:04 am, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Is that based on measurements?

Yes, Pete did some.

> I did not care for the pi3's behavior much.

Unlike the Pi 3, the Pi 4 has a true GigE MAC built into the SoC, and the USB3 controller has enough throughput to actually support a second GigE port; it's attached to a real PCIe lane.  This means it can move packets from one to the other, in both directions at once, at wire speed without relying on an offload engine (which it doesn't have).  That's perfect for SQM.

In older Pis, the Ethernet port was attached over USB2.  That doesn't have enough throughput to support GigE, and most models had a 100base-TX port as a consequence.  There's a similar bottleneck in most CPE routers between the CPU and the Ethernet hardware complex, with the offload engine being part of the latter.  That bottleneck is why SQM can't reach wire speed on that class of hardware.

 - Jonathan Morton

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Michael Richardson]

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Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
    >> I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw wise?

    > At present I would strongly consider a Raspberry Pi 4 with a USB3 GigE
    > second Ethernet port.  That doesn't give you a high-performance wifi
    > AP, but it'll handle the speed just fine, with SQM, over Ethernet.  You
    > should be able to attach a dedicated bridge AP to it.

I saw an ad for:
  https://www.seeedstudio.com/Rapberry-Pi-CM4-Dual-GbE-Carrier-Board-p-4874.html

{Since there is a GbE on the compute board, I'm unclear if this carrier board
adds two *more* GbE, and the onboard is hidden somewhere, or if it adds only
one and brings the onboard one out.}

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [


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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[David Lang]

This is using the compute module, that does not have any on-board ports

so it's 2 Gig ports total

David Lang

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Jonathan Morton]

> On 17 Mar, 2021, at 3:01 am, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
> 
> This is using the compute module, that does not have any on-board ports

Actually, the CM4 brings the on-board GigE interface out to the connector pins via a suitable PHY.  All that is needed is a magjack on the carrier.  What this particular carrier does is to provide a *twin* magjack, wire the appropriate CM4 pins to half of it, and wire the other half to a LAN7800 USB-to-GigE adapter.  The latter is then wired up to the CM4 via a 4-port USB hub chip, so there are also three USB ports (one on a header, two as physical ports).

All but the cheapest of the CM4 models also include a single-channel, dual-band wifi/BT chip.  This requires only an antenna to make it an austere but probably usable AP.  For better performance, a multi-channel wifi adapter could be plugged into the USB header, and the cheapest CM4 "Lite" would probably then be sufficient.

 - Jonathan Morton

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Sebastian Moeller]

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There is also an io board for the compute module that offers a PCIe slot which might could be used for a real NIC...



On 17 March 2021 03:57:24 CET, Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 Mar, 2021, at 3:01 am, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>> 
>> This is using the compute module, that does not have any on-board
>ports
>
>Actually, the CM4 brings the on-board GigE interface out to the
>connector pins via a suitable PHY.  All that is needed is a magjack on
>the carrier.  What this particular carrier does is to provide a *twin*
>magjack, wire the appropriate CM4 pins to half of it, and wire the
>other half to a LAN7800 USB-to-GigE adapter.  The latter is then wired
>up to the CM4 via a 4-port USB hub chip, so there are also three USB
>ports (one on a header, two as physical ports).
>
>All but the cheapest of the CM4 models also include a single-channel,
>dual-band wifi/BT chip.  This requires only an antenna to make it an
>austere but probably usable AP.  For better performance, a
>multi-channel wifi adapter could be plugged into the USB header, and
>the cheapest CM4 "Lite" would probably then be sufficient.
>
> - Jonathan Morton
>_______________________________________________
>Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Matt Taggart]

On 3/16/21 11:30 AM, Charles Rothschild via Cerowrt-devel wrote:

 > I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw wise?

I've been using the Qotom x86 boxes and running x86 OpenWRT on them. 
They have no problem doing CAKE on 1gig symmetrical connection.

http://qotom.net/  and then Products -> Mini PC -> Multiple NIC

But the Qotom vendor site is confusing and also doesn't list all the 
products you can find available. So a while ago I made this decoder ring

https://we.riseup.net/lackof/x86-router-candidates#qotom

The prices listed there are old now, but maybe still help to compare them.
The two models I have ordered are

Q355G4, for $215.00 + $33.64 shipping + tax (seems to have gone up a little)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077ZWR8Q9

Q330G4, for $169 + $42 shipping + tax (not available)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07117QWFH

OpenWRT doesn't need much RAM (unless you plan to do more than just 
routing with SQM) so I just used some orphaned 2gb DDR3 SODIMMs I had 
laying around. I boot it from a small USB drive, but you could use a 
proper hard drive if you wanted it to do more.


Here's another thing I learned about lately, you can buy the ROCK64 1gb 
V2 board on ebay for $20 including power supply ($5 shipping, decent 
cases for $10-20).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274678920361

It's got a built-in gigabit NIC and also has a usb3 port.
Anyone know about the SQM potential of that device?

https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Rock64

Could it work for just a gateway and then use a separate switch and APs? 
(I'm much more likely to deploy things that way these days rather than 
an all-in-one device). It could maybe make a nice AP-only device too 
with a suitable usb3 wireless adapter. (and what usb adapters do people 
like these days?

Maybe this could be the replacement for the WNDR3800 that were such a 
good deal?
(and if not that one, maybe another PINE device)

-- 
Matt Taggart
matt@lackof.org

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Toke Høiland-Jørgensen]

Matt Taggart <matt@lackof.org> writes:

> On 3/16/21 11:30 AM, Charles Rothschild via Cerowrt-devel wrote:
>
>  > I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw wise?
>
> I've been using the Qotom x86 boxes and running x86 OpenWRT on them. 
> They have no problem doing CAKE on 1gig symmetrical connection.
>
> http://qotom.net/  and then Products -> Mini PC -> Multiple NIC
>
> But the Qotom vendor site is confusing and also doesn't list all the 
> products you can find available. So a while ago I made this decoder ring
>
> https://we.riseup.net/lackof/x86-router-candidates#qotom

Nice list! One comment - the page says this:

> The Intel AES-NI cpu extension can really help openssl/wireguard a lot

That is true for openssl (and other TLS, even IPSec, I think), but not
for wireguard - that doesn't use AES at all, but rather ChaCha20, which
is not accelerated by AES-NI (and doesn't need it either).

-Toke

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !

[Aaron Wood]

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I'm using the Seeed Odyssey
https://www.seeedstudio.com/ODYSSEY-X86J4105864-p-4447.html

It will shape inbound using cake (piece of cake) at 1Gbps.  Dual Intel i210
controllers.  I'm running stable OpenWRT, although I needed to use ToT to
get a UEFI boot setup for it that would work with the internal eMMC.

But it has hilariously more storage and memory that I need for a border
router.  I _can_ completely utilize a single core with cake on inbound
traffic, so I'd like to sort out multiqueue (needs a newer kernel version
with a newer driver from Intel), but I haven't bothered, since it seems to
handle things well, and I rarely sustain 1Gbps downloads.

I use the most aggressive ACK filtering setting with cake due to the 30:1
asymmetry on the link.

On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 3:54 AM Toke Høiland-Jørgensen via Cerowrt-devel <
cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@toke.dk>
> To: Matt Taggart <matt@lackof.org>, cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:54:08 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !
> Matt Taggart <matt@lackof.org> writes:
>
> > On 3/16/21 11:30 AM, Charles Rothschild via Cerowrt-devel wrote:
> >
> >  > I want a 1GB capable SQM router. What options are good nowadays hw
> wise?
> >
> > I've been using the Qotom x86 boxes and running x86 OpenWRT on them.
> > They have no problem doing CAKE on 1gig symmetrical connection.
> >
> > http://qotom.net/  and then Products -> Mini PC -> Multiple NIC
> >
> > But the Qotom vendor site is confusing and also doesn't list all the
> > products you can find available. So a while ago I made this decoder ring
> >
> > https://we.riseup.net/lackof/x86-router-candidates#qotom
>
> Nice list! One comment - the page says this:
>
> > The Intel AES-NI cpu extension can really help openssl/wireguard a lot
>
> That is true for openssl (and other TLS, even IPSec, I think), but not
> for wireguard - that doesn't use AES at all, but rather ChaCha20, which
> is not accelerated by AES-NI (and doesn't need it either).
>
> -Toke
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen via Cerowrt-devel" <
> cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> To: Matt Taggart <matt@lackof.org>, cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 03:54:14 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Looking for MORE SQM Router Recommendations !
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>

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