From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0142.outbound.protection.outlook.com [157.56.110.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2345321F2E8 for ; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 10:57:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oi0-f52.google.com (209.85.218.52) by BY2PR06MB028.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.45.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.31.17; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 18:57:09 +0000 Received: by mail-oi0-f52.google.com with SMTP id h136so863367oig.11 for ; Tue, 09 Dec 2014 10:57:04 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.182.28.99 with SMTP id a3mr2904689obh.79.1418151424061; Tue, 09 Dec 2014 10:57:04 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.160.68 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Dec 2014 10:56:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Eric Schultz Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 12:56:43 -0600 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: [209.85.218.52] X-ClientProxiedBy: BLUPR08CA0051.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.141.200.31) To BY2PR06MB028.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.242.45.25) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY2PR06MB028; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(602002); SRVR:BY2PR06MB028; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0420213CCD X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51914003)(24454002)(199003)(51704005)(51414003)(377454003)(46584002)(243025005)(189002)(55446002)(101416001)(61266001)(97736003)(21056001)(122386002)(64706001)(120916001)(99396003)(61726006)(40100003)(77156002)(62966003)(450100001)(15975445007)(66066001)(68736005)(59536001)(122856001)(50986999)(46102003)(16601075003)(20776003)(4396001)(110136001)(54356999)(107046002)(106356001)(105586002)(81156004)(69596002)(23676002)(50466002)(19580405001)(63696999)(47776003)(86362001)(76176999)(92566001)(93516999)(19580395003)(87976001)(31966008)(98316002)(55456009); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BY2PR06MB028; H:mail-oi0-f52.google.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BY2PR06MB028; X-OriginatorOrg: prplfoundation.org Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] New FCC requirements and CeroWrt X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 18:57:42 -0000 Dave, Thanks for the quick response and I appreciate your passion. No one here wants Secure Boot or DRM at all. I personally find the idea abhorrent and no one at prpl wants it. The difficulty is figuring out how companies can comply with the regulation in a way that doesn't require hardware be locked down. I wish I could avoid ever thinking of this topic but unfortunately, if companies don't find a solution that fulfills the FCC's requirements, they're going to go with DRM. I want to see if we can give manufacturers a solution that avoids DRM entirely. I'd be happy to learn more about the make-wifi-fast effort and to see how we can facilitate it's success. Thanks a ton, Eric On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Eric Schultz > wrote: >> All, >> >> I work for the prpl Foundation, an open source foundation organized by >> a number of companies, most related to MIPS. One project we work with >> externally is the OpenWrt project. Recently one of our members >> mentioned a new FCC requirement (described at >> http://wiki.prplfoundation.org/wiki/Complying_with_FCC_rules_on_5ghz_wif= i) >> which requires wifi hardware devices to restrict modifications in ways >> that were not previously required. Some of the suggestions the company >> had internally for complying would be to use features like Secure Boot >> and other types of DRM-like mechanisms to prevent routers from being >> modified. This obviously would be quite bad for the OpenWrt ecosystem > > It would be bad for everyone. Worse, since the research contingent > making progress on keeping wifi working in the first place in the face > of enormous growth, is centered around the ath9k chipset, additional > rules and regulations centered around DRM are likely to choke off > further development of then new ideas and techniques needed to keep it > working. > >> so we agreed as a group >> to try to provide hardware companies with a way of complying without >> harming the community. > > My view is mildly more extreme - the 2.4 and 5.8 ghz spectrum currently > allocated to wifi is the *public's* spectrum. > > I am deeply concerned about further intrusions on it by things like this= : > > https://www.qualcomm.com/products/lte/unlicensed > > and we need more spectrum, not less, in order to keep wifi for > everyone, working. > >> I'm looking to find individuals (and other companies!) interested in >> working with myself and the foundation, companies, the OpenWrt >> community > > >> and eventually regulators to provide guidance to hardware >> companies on how to best comply with these rules. > > I intend to continue ignoring them to what extent I can. Regrettably > this situation is contributing to community members being unable to > apply new queue management techniques to new standards like 802.11ac, > and seems to be the source of all the proprietary ac firmware. > > I think a first step would merely to be for a big maker to publicly > release their 802.11ac firmware and let the chips fall where they may. > >> If you're interested >> in getting involved or just would like to know more, please get in >> touch with me. We want to make sure that routers are hackable >> and we could use all the help we can get. > > +10. I would like to see prpl participating in the make-wifi-fast effort,= also. > > http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/ieee802.11-sept-17-2014/11-14-1265-0= 0-0wng-More-on-Bufferbloat.pdf > > > >> Thanks and I look forward to working with you, >> >> Eric >> >> -- >> Eric Schultz, Community Manager, prpl Foundation >> http://www.prplfoundation.org >> eschultz@prplfoundation.org >> cell: 920-539-0404 >> skype: ericschultzwi >> @EricPrpl >> _______________________________________________ >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > > > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > thttp://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/Upcoming_Talks --=20 Eric Schultz, Community Manager, prpl Foundation http://www.prplfoundation.org eschultz@prplfoundation.org cell: 920-539-0404 skype: ericschultzwi @EricPrpl