From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-x22c.google.com (mail-qc0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E45321F22D for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id i8so877630qcq.3 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:10:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=xig6riXsnZNYWjqCVuSOEJQSJ59CnVOa4H52SXUFlQE=; b=cojIIeNzdIlviIfDtQXqaWyLMgACSH4gJ5ceWIGbxkKhvtWeMXZzQO+qdL2ZgsHMbq /vYIi39jlVrwY0AoQFJZEKHtj8Dt80aC0mmsk7vhXSzh4/Nd7e+JRS59+8aHEZtVq5RY 8eS2iYLYDwVl83jtRqPKwCsWun8DZ7omD24k6rCdeevQkmDbsEkIYjEnNSZaZnVJQ7bv jAUMNlZHbYKGaWoI3Ju4gbf+iH5c/5QUUNkx/h6eUr57ifI17Bl1Qq5nSmK5PWsPoh/A cpJuCpw3Tphp/WN2dRMxem7XykGXX/SGMtH4rShxmtzFtrLHwdbRoW1UtyMOkn6TQmhl DDmg== X-Received: by 10.140.107.229 with SMTP id h92mr19278761qgf.30.1397761804931; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:10:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.96.200 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:09:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <012a01cf596b$2ad971e0$808c55a0$@com> References: <012a01cf596b$2ad971e0$808c55a0$@com> From: Chris Lawrence Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:09:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: "" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a6020dd195f04f741c728 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Network behavior of Moca bridges X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:10:06 -0000 --001a113a6020dd195f04f741c728 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 For what it's worth I have a home MoCA network (1 TiVo Premiere XL4 and 2 ActionTec MoCA adapters); I'm not sure how to go about benchmarking it but I'd be happy to help. Performance-wise I haven't noticed any issues, even in interactive use (often ssh over wifi to CeroWRT to MoCA to my Linux desktop), and a definite improvement over the first-generation Panasonic powerline network I was using before. Chris On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Frits Riep wrote: > Dave, > > I am willing to help. It is interesting information. Also that the > powerline extenders have the same issue, which is really unfortunate. To > do any testing, I will need to install a second moca adapter as I currently > have only one installed to connect to the TV set top boxed from Verizon > FIOS. > > Other than testing for latency through a Moca bridged connection, vs > directly connected through Ethernet, is there any specific recommendation > on how to test to get meaningful information? > > Btw, the current release of CeroWRT using fq_codel sqm is excellent at > controlling bufferbloat both on the wired and wireless connections - so > kudos to all the hard work that has been done! Only a few days so far, but > I am very impressed with the results. (hopefully we are about to call this > the new stable). > > I may not be able to test the moca setup until the weekend as all of my > clients who waited forever to replace their XP systems now find it to be > critical and so we have a very high number of small businesses replacing xp > systems with our currently recommended Windows 7 Pro x64. > > I think in most cases the Moca bridges are primarily feeding streaming > video and control info to set top boxes and I would think bufferbloat would > be not a real high concern in those applications. > > Powerline adaptors are used pretty often to extend Ethernet to systems > which are difficult or expensive to wire to, and in situations where > wireless signals are weak or unreliable. Bufferbloat for these devices > would be much more problematic for these applications as it includes web > browsing and other latency sensitive uses. > > Frits > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Taht [mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:06 PM > To: Frits Riep > Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Network behavior of Moca bridges > > I'd like to note that I've got several private reports of really bad, oft > bufferbloated and (also underbuffered!) behavior on moca bridges, and if > you are in a position to benchmark such, more public data on the problems > would be nice. > > It generally looks like the same folk that designed homeplug products were > involved in moca, with similar behaviors as described below with hardware > flow control and the like, in addition to possible underbuffering and > issues with shared media backoffs... > > http://caia.swin.edu.au/reports/130121A/CAIA-TR-130121A.pdf > > http://caia.swin.edu.au/reports/130417A/CAIA-TR-130417A.pdf > > But we lack hard public data on how the moca devices actually work or > public testing. > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > -- Chris Lawrence Website: http://www.cnlawrence.com/ --001a113a6020dd195f04f741c728 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
For what it's worth I have a home MoCA network (1 TiVo= Premiere XL4 and 2 ActionTec MoCA adapters); I'm not sure how to go ab= out benchmarking it but I'd be happy to help. Performance-wise I haven&= #39;t noticed any issues, even in interactive use (often ssh over wifi to C= eroWRT to MoCA to my Linux desktop), and a definite improvement over the fi= rst-generation Panasonic powerline network I was using before.


Chris
<= br>
On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 7:58 AM, Frits Ri= ep <riep@riepnet.com> wrote:
Dave,

I am willing to help. =C2=A0It is interesting information. =C2=A0Also that = the powerline extenders have the same issue, which is really unfortunate. = =C2=A0To do any testing, I will need to install a second moca adapter as I = currently have only one installed to connect to the TV set top boxed from V= erizon FIOS.

Other than testing for latency through a Moca bridged connection, vs direct= ly connected through Ethernet, is there any specific recommendation on how = to test to get meaningful information?

Btw, the current release of CeroWRT using fq_codel sqm is excellent at cont= rolling bufferbloat both on the wired and wireless connections - so kudos t= o all the hard work that has been done! =C2=A0Only a few days so far, but I= am very impressed with the results. =C2=A0(hopefully we are about to call = this the new stable).

I may not be able to test the moca setup until the weekend as all of my cli= ents who waited forever to replace their XP systems now find it to be criti= cal and so we have a very high number of small businesses replacing xp syst= ems with our currently recommended Windows 7 Pro x64.

I think in most cases the Moca bridges are primarily feeding streaming vide= o and control info to set top boxes and I would think bufferbloat would be = not a real high concern in those applications.

Powerline adaptors are used pretty often to extend Ethernet to systems whic= h are difficult or expensive to wire to, and in situations where wireless s= ignals are weak or unreliable. =C2=A0Bufferbloat for these devices would be= much more problematic for these applications as it includes web browsing a= nd other latency sensitive uses.

Frits

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Taht [mailto:dave.taht@gm= ail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 5:06 PM
To: Frits Riep
Cc: cerowrt-devel@li= sts.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Network behavior of Moca bridges

I'd like to note that I've got several private reports of really ba= d, oft bufferbloated and (also underbuffered!) behavior on moca bridges, an= d if you are in a position to benchmark such, more public data on the probl= ems would be nice.

It generally looks like the same folk that designed homeplug products were = involved in moca, with similar behaviors as described below with hardware f= low control and the like, in addition to possible underbuffering and issues= with shared media backoffs...

http://caia.swin.edu.au/reports/130121A/CAIA-TR-130121A.pdf<= /a>

http://caia.swin.edu.au/reports/130417A/CAIA-TR-130417A.pdf<= /a>

But we lack hard public data on how the moca devices actually work or publi= c testing.

_______________________________________________
Cerowrt-devel mailing list
Cerowrt-devel@lists.= bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



--
= Chris Lawrence <lordsutch@gmail.com>

Website: http://www.cnlawrence.com/
--001a113a6020dd195f04f741c728--