From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x241.google.com (mail-lf0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FC3A3CB48 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2018 13:48:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x241.google.com with SMTP id u21-v6so688346lfc.7 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:48:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=msJYwvka/0vnJGf7GZviw+/g1vzFhEcv/GUMEiO8eLs=; b=CIMvbfIa7l/vQHNb2wQ1Ggq39etgMM4lb7PW8NHoY1Z9IX+RROzxqOC9tG8p8/4ZAl n/z6tG9avQ8p7mnUg7Zqd5wr19KMGOw+qLxARSubX6Gdfu4E3MIQ0wBX7JI9f1Wj/62/ 8GsLsJ6CE/Obc+YdSCs/q53N0lhWuOyK4cEjnTxr2a1Zko4dok+RrjWagkPDpn5fkkiN SBxitFRagNSaoVSu8x8xCEXaovCks5zsCq8UL/lVXpwpiwbkddgGOjTUFNItSqBKIfGl KNr1Bx0vJduhLAmUcpxgmamq7sbtE1anFQlhMpo5pqe3OHR+X5QKYj48pqtfR6gPjtt9 gaog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=msJYwvka/0vnJGf7GZviw+/g1vzFhEcv/GUMEiO8eLs=; b=bcknMUCt2gj2S4G+MdbyPhXBQkwV24qEAbQ6perkV1X4liDZgq3/AC0enypVUyKNwP jLtIre4GHAps3qX8y5I+u6nn78y2tJefrqvsvkp5RWwWeBidO3Ixf5RvTKlPO2zTO4JN Nj7f8HUOHkAnJq/AxT+NM9gRoVvMU3Nq1SoHDKdo0elEEKP0qi1YgqDYdKDBKq+jSUcA R1iXgiI1vFzNv79Npq4aHRLjcsoOnRf0m7ThTRhiU2VVqetm8GcUCK0b2ykmooEs4W9X iw012Zrdfcc7VkweZ6PFSexpVSwc8yiarLOszcg6q3Cg9hhQpuWhVspSlXFc4ti//2M0 y++Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7GPWsQ8NJFynnM2AKpHOH3IcheUiOOCwxnC5zH7MHzrGbBUS5rg SPR0EuRpYJhLfRJcXRYesBjcf0xyC4ue3UYQVag= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELsap9Kd/6hz9NoAD2SO+MQPiJZHOuJyW/TOtfz/8gjZ70o7rOaMQkZTVAiLvpThKpO8oTbEQe11edwMCKSNQ5w= X-Received: by 10.46.65.82 with SMTP id o79mr1103478lja.97.1520963286178; Tue, 13 Mar 2018 10:48:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1520875105.31683592@apps.rackspace.com> <1520881804.31539998@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: From: Christopher Robin Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:47:55 +0000 Message-ID: To: Jim Gettys Cc: Dave Taht , cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1c0ad8639fa705674edc89" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] spacebee X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 17:48:07 -0000 --94eb2c1c0ad8639fa705674edc89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jim Gettys wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > >> 2) Although the FCC denied the application based on having inadaquate >> radar reflectivity, according to their standards, the article states: >> >> "Websites dedicated to tracking operational satellites show the >> SpaceBees in orbits virtually identical to those specified in Swarm=E2= =80=99s >> application." Ground stations can only get better. > > Note that the objections are based on a non-operating SpaceBee. I=E2=80=99m= not seeing anything about one of the SpaceBees going dark for testing or not responding due to malfunction. So the ground stations are prob getting both GPS data from the sat and a fix on the radio signal to determine position. If both of those methods of tracking disappear, there appears to be a limited number of ground stations that could provide an accurate enough location to allow for other orbitals to made an avoidance maneuver. With all the noise around this launch, I haven=E2=80=99t been able to find = info on expected operational lifespan vs expected orbit decay. LEO=E2=80=99s can st= ill last for decades. The only thing I=E2=80=99m finding is an expected use for 6mo = to 2yr, but not sure how long after that the Spaceebee will stay in orbit and/or be responsive with positional data. While just 4 of these things in space isn=E2=80=99t a major concern, rogue launching objects into space isn=E2=80=99t a scalable solution. This is esp= ecially true as the cost of launching comes down into the =E2=80=9Ccheap=E2=80=9D s= tartup range. These types of companies aren=E2=80=99t usually concerned 25yr impact plans= , and most wont last long enough to be around to assist if any problems occur past that 2-3yr window. We have rules for the road, the sea, and the sky. Space needs similar protections. No, the FCC shouldn=E2=80=99t be that gatekeeper, but that=E2= =80=99s where we are at until an agency is stood up with authority to handle these kinds of issues. --94eb2c1c0ad8639fa705674edc89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Mar 13,= 2018 at 1:03 PM Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
<= div>
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at = 12:52 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
2) Although the FCC denied the application based on having inadaquate
radar reflectivity, according to their standards, the article states:

"Websites dedicated to tracking operational satellites show the
SpaceBees in orbits virtually identical to those specified in Swarm=E2=80= =99s
application." Ground stations can only get better.
<= /div>

Note that the objections are based on a no= n-operating SpaceBee. I=E2=80=99m not seeing anything about one of the Spac= eBees going dark for testing or not responding due to malfunction. So the g= round stations are prob getting both GPS data from the sat and a fix on the= radio signal to determine position. If both of those methods of tracking d= isappear, there appears to be a limited number of ground stations that coul= d provide an accurate enough location to allow for other orbitals to made a= n avoidance maneuver.=C2=A0

With all the noise around this launch, I haven=E2=80=99t been able to f= ind info on expected operational lifespan vs expected orbit decay. LEO=E2= =80=99s can still last for decades. The only thing I=E2=80=99m finding is a= n expected use for 6mo to 2yr, but not sure how long after that the Spaceeb= ee will stay in orbit and/or be responsive with positional data.=C2=A0

While just 4 of these things= in space isn=E2=80=99t a major concern, rogue launching objects into space= isn=E2=80=99t a scalable solution. This is especially true as the cost of = launching comes down into the =E2=80=9Ccheap=E2=80=9D startup range. These = types of companies aren=E2=80=99t usually concerned 25yr impact plans, and = most wont last long enough to be around to assist if any problems occur pas= t that 2-3yr window.

We = have rules for the road, the sea, and the sky. Space needs similar protecti= ons. No, the FCC shouldn=E2=80=99t be that gatekeeper, but that=E2=80=99s w= here we are at until an agency is stood up with authority to handle these k= inds of issues.=C2=A0
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