Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] DOCSIS 3+ recommendation?

["Livingood, Jason" <Jason_Livingood@cable.comcast.com>]

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On 3/20/15, 9:48 AM, "Jim Gettys" <jg@freedesktop.org<mailto:jg@freedesktop.org>> wrote:
​I think this was the hope that the buffer size control feature in Docsis could at least be used to cut bufferbloat down to the "traditional" 100ms level, as I remember the sequence of events.  But reality intervened: buggy implementations by too many vendors, is what I remember hearing from Rich Woundy.

Indeed!

If I can re-prioritize some work (and fight some internal battles) to do a buffer bloat trial this year (next few months) - would folks here be willing to give input on the design / parameters? It would not be perfect but would be along the lines of ‘what’s the best we can do regarding buffer bloat with the equipment/software/systems/network we have now’.

​
 Even when you get to engineers in the organizations who build the equipment, it's hard.  First you have to explain that "more is not better", and "some packet loss is good for you".

That’s right, Jim. The “some packet loss is good” part is from what I have seen the hardest thing for people to understand. People have been trained to believe that any packet loss is terrible, not to mention that you should never fill a link to capacity (meaning either there should never be a bottleneck link anywhere on the Internet and/or that congestion should never occur anywhere).

***So we have to generate demand from the market.***

+1

1) help expose the problem, preferably in a dead simple way that everyone sees.  If we can get Ookla to add a simple test to their test system, this would be a good start.  If not, other test sites are needed.  Nice as Netalyzer is, it a) tops out around 20Mbps, and b) buries the buffering results among 50 other numbers.

+1

2) Markets such as gaming are large, and very latency sensitive.  Even better, lots of geeks hang out there.  So investing in educating that submarket may help pull things through the system overall.

Consumer segments like gamers are very important. I suggest getting them coordinated in some manner. Create a campaign like #GamersAgainstBufferbloat / GamersAgainstBufferbloat.org or something.

We should talk at IETF.

Wish I were there! I will be in Amsterdam at the RIPE Atlas hack-a-thon. Some cool work happening on that measurement platform!

Jason

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