Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Richard Brown]

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Dave,

I have finally got the new stuff from linux-3.3 (BQL and various
ehancements to RED, aRED, and SFQ)
backported to linux-3.2.2, as well as got nearly all the original
features originally intended for rc7 working.

http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/BQL_series_release_notes

Congratulations! This is fantastic news. I've burned it into my router at home, and I'm getting ready to replace my DD-WRT on a WRT54GL. A few comments/questions:

- gw.home.lan is working again (and by extension, I suppose bind is, as well). I have removed the notes about DNS not working from the wiki.

- Does the Onboard Documentation (http://jupiter.lab.bufferbloat.net/cerowrt/about.html) accurately reflect what is in the bql-27 build? (The Read This First page asserts this.)

- I have added a page that talks about turning on monitoring: SNMP and NetFlow, if only to jog my memory of what I need to do it: (http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Monitoring_CeroWrt)

- Would it be possible to get fprobe added into the bql-27 packages?

- When I'm looking at the web GUI, I have a hard time remembering which build I was using e.g., r29957 for the bql-27 build. As a workaround, it might be enough to include the build number  somewhere (as a file name?) in the download directory. (http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/bql-smoketests/bql-27/)

Best,

Rich Brown
Hanover, NH

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Dave Taht]

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 3:42 AM, Richard Brown
<richard.e.brown@dartware.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I have finally got the new stuff from linux-3.3 (BQL and various
> ehancements to RED, aRED, and SFQ)
> backported to linux-3.2.2, as well as got nearly all the original
> features originally intended for rc7 working.
>
> http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/BQL_series_release_notes
>
>
> Congratulations! This is fantastic news. I've burned it into my router at
> home, and I'm getting ready to replace my DD-WRT on a WRT54GL. A few
> comments/questions:

I note that the default AQM is rather lame now. I am working on a
replacement,and gui for it, but won't be done for at least a week.
PLEASE feel free to try it as is...

> - gw.home.lan is working again (and by extension, I suppose bind is, as
> well). I have removed the notes about DNS not working from the wiki.

Yep.

>
> - Does the Onboard Documentation
> (http://jupiter.lab.bufferbloat.net/cerowrt/about.html) accurately reflect
> what is in the bql-27 build? (The Read This First page asserts this.)

I have no idea right now.

We need to take a major pass through the onboard doc
(I'd like better css on that too), but I have assiduously
resisted making any big decisions regarding the final
core feature set until now, and I don't want to
think about doc until that settles down.

I only have two 'features' left to add - and that's dhcp6-pd support
and better ipv6 support overall. I'd like to implement rfc4193
support,AND get that working on gw.home.lan as well.

Then there is the gui and aqm work...

>
> - I have added a page that talks about turning on monitoring: SNMP and
> NetFlow, if only to jog my memory of what I need to do it:
> (http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Monitoring_CeroWrt)

THX!

>
> - Would it be possible to get fprobe added into the bql-27 packages?

Sorry, I had to rebase that build (again) and hadn't
checked the new package database into the build tree.

fprobe or fprobe-ulog? I'll build both but only want
to include one.

I am not planning a truly working new build or package set
for a week or so, either, sorrry.

>
> - When I'm looking at the web GUI, I have a hard time remembering which
> build I was using e.g., r29957 for the bql-27 build. As a workaround, it
> might be enough to include the build number  somewhere (as a file name?) in
> the download directory.
> (http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/bql-smoketests/bql-27/)

I will start writing /etc/openwrt-version in the next builds.

I note that the bql series is just that (and it took me 23 attempts to
eventually get bql working), and it isn't tied
to a rc, or plan, at all. It was my way of dismissing the
externalities and fixing bufferbloat more than anything else.

While I was doing that, nearly all the fixes required to meet
rc7's original feature plan arrived...





>
> Best,
>
> Rich Brown
> Hanover, NH
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>



-- 
Dave Täht
SKYPE: davetaht
US Tel: 1-239-829-5608
FR Tel: 0638645374
http://www.bufferbloat.net

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Richard Brown]

Dave,

> I note that the default AQM is rather lame now. I am working on a
> replacement,and gui for it, but won't be done for at least a week.
> PLEASE feel free to try it as is...

OK. Thanks.

>> - Does the Onboard Documentation
>> (http://jupiter.lab.bufferbloat.net/cerowrt/about.html) accurately reflect
>> what is in the bql-27 build? (The Read This First page asserts this.)
> 
> I have no idea right now.

I understand. The worst part is that the main About... page refers to Ocean City. Perhaps the last two paragraphs should simply say,

---
This is a stable build of the bql series of CeroWrt from February 2012. For more information on CeroWrt, please see the "CeroWrt Wiki":http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki
---

> We need to take a major pass through the onboard doc
> (I'd like better css on that too), but I have assiduously
> resisted making any big decisions regarding the final
> core feature set until now, and I don't want to
> think about doc until that settles down.
> 
> I only have two 'features' left to add - and that's dhcp6-pd support
> and better ipv6 support overall. I'd like to implement rfc4193
> support,AND get that working on gw.home.lan as well.
> 
> Then there is the gui and aqm work...

Great.

>> - Would it be possible to get fprobe added into the bql-27 packages?
> 
> Sorry, I had to rebase that build (again) and hadn't
> checked the new package database into the build tree.
> 
> fprobe or fprobe-ulog? I'll build both but only want
> to include one.

fprobe is fine. 

> I am not planning a truly working new build or package set
> for a week or so, either, sorrry.

That's OK.
> 
>> 
>> - When I'm looking at the web GUI, I have a hard time remembering which
>> build I was using e.g., r29957 for the bql-27 build. As a workaround, it
>> might be enough to include the build number  somewhere (as a file name?) in
>> the download directory.
>> (http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/bql-smoketests/bql-27/)
> 
> I will start writing /etc/openwrt-version in the next builds.

Perfect.

> I note that the bql series is just that (and it took me 23 attempts to
> eventually get bql working), and it isn't tied
> to a rc, or plan, at all. It was my way of dismissing the
> externalities and fixing bufferbloat more than anything else.
> 
> While I was doing that, nearly all the fixes required to meet
> rc7's original feature plan arrived...

There is so much noise about rc7 & rc8 in the wiki/site. Perhaps it's better simply to jump to a name/version not already mentioned?

I also note that a lot of the stuff from the wiki could be promoted to the Overview, Roadmap, and Activity, and News parts of the main CeroWrt site... I'm happy to do that but don't have access right now.

Thanks!

Rich

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Dave Taht]

please note that I AM putting regular builds up in bql-smoketests
but unless I announce them here, I'd advise steering clear...

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:34 AM, Richard Brown
<richard.e.brown@dartware.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
>> I note that the default AQM is rather lame now. I am working on a
>> replacement,and gui for it, but won't be done for at least a week.
>> PLEASE feel free to try it as is...
>
> OK. Thanks.
>
>>> - Does the Onboard Documentation
>>> (http://jupiter.lab.bufferbloat.net/cerowrt/about.html) accurately reflect
>>> what is in the bql-27 build? (The Read This First page asserts this.)
>>
>> I have no idea right now.
>
> I understand. The worst part is that the main About... page refers to Ocean City. Perhaps the last two paragraphs should simply say,

To me 'Ocean City' was the rc6 build.

Mentally 'Paris' is the upcoming build.

I would like to get away from the 'rc' nomenclature. I'm open to a new
naming and numbering scheme for sure.

>
> ---
> This is a stable build of the bql series of CeroWrt from February 2012. For more information on CeroWrt, please see the "CeroWrt Wiki":http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki
> ---
>
>> We need to take a major pass through the onboard doc
>> (I'd like better css on that too), but I have assiduously
>> resisted making any big decisions regarding the final
>> core feature set until now, and I don't want to
>> think about doc until that settles down.
>>
>> I only have two 'features' left to add - and that's dhcp6-pd support
>> and better ipv6 support overall. I'd like to implement rfc4193
>> support,AND get that working on gw.home.lan as well.
>>
>> Then there is the gui and aqm work...
>
> Great.
>
>>> - Would it be possible to get fprobe added into the bql-27 packages?
>>
>> Sorry, I had to rebase that build (again) and hadn't
>> checked the new package database into the build tree.
>>
>> fprobe or fprobe-ulog? I'll build both but only want
>> to include one.
>
> fprobe is fine.

OK, added in my messy builds, and will be there permanently in the future.


>
>> I am not planning a truly working new build or package set
>> for a week or so, either, sorrry.
>
> That's OK.
>>
>>>
>>> - When I'm looking at the web GUI, I have a hard time remembering which
>>> build I was using e.g., r29957 for the bql-27 build. As a workaround, it
>>> might be enough to include the build number  somewhere (as a file name?) in
>>> the download directory.
>>> (http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/bql-smoketests/bql-27/)
>>
>> I will start writing /etc/openwrt-version in the next builds.
>
> Perfect.
>
>> I note that the bql series is just that (and it took me 23 attempts to
>> eventually get bql working), and it isn't tied
>> to a rc, or plan, at all. It was my way of dismissing the
>> externalities and fixing bufferbloat more than anything else.
>>
>> While I was doing that, nearly all the fixes required to meet
>> rc7's original feature plan arrived...
>
> There is so much noise about rc7 & rc8 in the wiki/site. Perhaps it's better simply to jump to a name/version not already mentioned?

yes, see above. suggestions welcomed.

>
> I also note that a lot of the stuff from the wiki could be promoted to the Overview, Roadmap, and Activity, and News parts of the main CeroWrt site... I'm happy to do that but don't have access right now.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Rich
>



-- 
Dave Täht
SKYPE: davetaht
US Tel: 1-239-829-5608
FR Tel: 0638645374
http://www.bufferbloat.net

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Richard Brown]

Dave,

>> Mentally 'Paris' is the upcoming build.

Then we should build on this. I'll propose this description: 

The "Paris" build has an excellent first-cut at eliminating the problems caused by bufferbloat. It may not be the final word on the subject, but it's a serious stake in the ground. Subsequent major releases (with further improvements) will have some other city name.

>> I would like to get away from the 'rc' nomenclature. I'm open to a new
>> naming and numbering scheme for sure.

It has always been confusing to have the profusion of directories in http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/ I know the reasons, but simplification would help. Maybe we should just have two:
 - Paris
 - OlderBuilds

The Paris directory contains current stuff. There can be Stable and Development subdirectories. Once we get something that's pretty good, we move it to the Stable directory that people can use with safety. Development gets whatever untested, unstable version that's currently in source control. 

The OlderBuilds just contains the set of directories that are currently at the top level. They're for historical interest only.

Does this work?

Rich

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Dave Taht]

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 1:18 PM, Richard Brown
<richard.e.brown@dartware.com> wrote:
> Dave,
>
>>> Mentally 'Paris' is the upcoming build.
>
> Then we should build on this. I'll propose this description:
>
> The "Paris" build has an excellent first-cut at eliminating the problems caused by bufferbloat. It may not be the final word on the subject, but it's a serious stake in the ground. Subsequent major releases (with further improvements) will have some other city name.
>
>>> I would like to get away from the 'rc' nomenclature. I'm open to a new
>>> naming and numbering scheme for sure.
>
> It has always been confusing to have the profusion of directories in http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/ I know the reasons, but simplification would help. Maybe we should just have two:
>  - Paris
>  - OlderBuilds

Can't change the directory structure around without breaking opkg updates.

Probably better to start publishing a new toplevel dir entirely,
perhaps something like http://cerowrt.bufferbloat.net, with
"Ocean_City", "Paris", "Development" subdirs.



>
> The Paris directory contains current stuff. There can be Stable and Development subdirectories. Once we get something that's pretty good, we move it to the Stable directory that people can use with safety. Development gets whatever untested, unstable version that's currently in source control.
>
> The OlderBuilds just contains the set of directories that are currently at the top level. They're for historical interest only.
>
> Does this work?
>
> Rich
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



-- 
Dave Täht
SKYPE: davetaht
US Tel: 1-239-829-5608
FR Tel: 0638645374
http://www.bufferbloat.net

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] bql-27 smoketest released, with... BQL, SFQRED, etc

[Richard Brown]

Dave,

> Can't change the directory structure around without breaking opkg updates.
> 
> Probably better to start publishing a new toplevel dir entirely,
> perhaps something like http://cerowrt.bufferbloat.net, with
> "Ocean_City", "Paris", "Development" subdirs.

I wasn't aware of those constraints. But that organization sounds perfect. 

Rich

[Cerowrt-devel] Figure of Merit...

[Richard Brown]

We've been talking about a way to indicate that a router has incorporated the bufferbloat suppression. How about ZeroBloat (tm)? 

It's not quite a unit of measure (imagine the husband and wife in Best Buy... "How many ZeroBloat's does that one have, honey?" :-), but it'd be an obvious acknowledgement that the software inside was designed with some thought toward solving the problem. 

Perhaps there's a "1.0" spec that says use qdisc X, Y, and/or Z, and if research develops something better, define ZeroBloat 2.0 to indicate that.

Best,

Rich

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Figure of Merit...

[Dave Taht]

we had a long discussion of this on the bloat list about 6 months back.

We are a long way from zero bloat as yet... lowbloat. Now with 10x less bloat?

On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:39 AM, Richard Brown
<richard.e.brown@dartware.com> wrote:
> We've been talking about a way to indicate that a router has incorporated the bufferbloat suppression. How about ZeroBloat (tm)?
>
> It's not quite a unit of measure (imagine the husband and wife in Best Buy... "How many ZeroBloat's does that one have, honey?" :-), but it'd be an obvious acknowledgement that the software inside was designed with some thought toward solving the problem.
>
> Perhaps there's a "1.0" spec that says use qdisc X, Y, and/or Z, and if research develops something better, define ZeroBloat 2.0 to indicate that.
>
> Best,
>
> Rich



-- 
Dave Täht
SKYPE: davetaht
US Tel: 1-239-829-5608
FR Tel: 0638645374
http://www.bufferbloat.net