From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ee0-f45.google.com (mail-ee0-f45.google.com [74.125.83.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C49821F1C6 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:21:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ee0-f45.google.com with SMTP id c50so1130012eek.18 for ; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:21:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=x-gm-message-state:content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references :to; bh=sTy58uJheJ/neYgVbb07rIk8MNtkiRLnjZEHxjAshks=; b=Si0c35QFcjqEaQKuv41XO1MuSpTTR7+jN/ZF91PgtWcWUJOf15cwbu7nviBUZ9E/nh 74BT9blIBmvkITJ0KCz8NHZKm2r/srseCjx5VFhxawXNNEe45l8vDqGQLxdEYhguu1Mn rWAbqMfPiGSJXo8BUIZSN9LrIf77RGEt9gPH4LW5PoCqK7jobaO+gXqX0KBQhoIzxq8m jvko1kKgL5WYR9BrL4qCbzM7tc6U0iTTv8vX7hTfkrLRbnnYWpEdqTDarP0s39Y7kAdW uaGuCib2ymU+uT/QVyE9SPCsmU7RFKLADjh6cQdGe5J83q1+q7R0IsxTIMGfFlI+kDof yIpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlAMik/1yZP7y1LgpoPDiyOJMu/b2HvTucaBzP63C2EkduXbc7ibukerczOc3PPV/N/U6LC X-Received: by 10.14.183.130 with SMTP id q2mr2419979eem.5.1376688066456; Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.175.173.26] (524A14A4.cm-4-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl. [82.74.20.164]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id z12sm5426968eev.6.1969.12.31.16.00.00 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Teco Boot In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 23:21:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:36:09 -0700 Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , Juliusz Chroboczek , Steven Barth , Hannes Frederic Sowa , Felix Fietkau Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] IPv6 address assignment and naming X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2013 21:21:10 -0000 The IPv6 subtrees in on its way :-). After 3.11 we can ask for = backports. I think we need more beers. One reason to go to Vancouver. We should ask = the mptcp folks to join. There howto is far to complex, their own words = on sadr: "Doing the above each time by hand is very cumbersome". Hey, = this was the simple case with two interfaces, no dynamics !! Teco PS1: MPTCP in mesh is very useful: make before break and load = distribution. Can only work with autoconfig. PS2: Better autoconfig approach: BRDP. See draft-boot-homenet-brdp for = overview. IPv6-only (autoconf v4 over v6 is doable). Didn't implement. I = have no v6 access. Nor I am coder. It is similar to Juliusz his = approach, but it runs on top of ND RA and informs hosts. Didn't see = straightforward proposals for that, other than using another set of DHCP = options. Op 16 aug. 2013, om 21:13 heeft Dave Taht het = volgende geschreven: >=20 > Dear Juergen: >=20 > Your note kind of opens a can of worms. >=20 > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 11:13 AM, Juergen Botz = wrote: > On 08/16/2013 03:06 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > You need to statically assign addresses on the AHCP server box. >=20 > Ok, fair enough... but then why did it work without statically > assigned addresses in 3.7.x? >=20 > :j >=20 >=20 > The desired state of integration with the openwrt developers was not = achieved? :/ >=20 > Since January there has been a huge amount of work into making a = better state machine for openwrt, called netifd, to make it more = possible to have many more complex behaviors when it came to dealing = with network interfaces.=20 >=20 > http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/techref/netifd >=20 > I'm very happy with how well that's working out, but it was a scary = switch at the time!! >=20 > But this obsoleted the ahcpd integration I'd had before, and the = "ahcpd" proto has not made it into the mix of supported protocols in = netifd. A script that interfaces with the netifd concepts doesn't exist. = AHCPd itself could use a bit of work in this area, too. It would be nice = in particular if dyamic ipv6 assignment could be made to work, that = would lead to a natural syntax stanza in /etc/networks of something = like: >=20 > config interface 'gw01' =20 > option proto 'ahcp' =20 > option ip6assign '128' > =20 > config interface 'gw11' =20 > option proto 'static' =20 > option ip6assign '128' >=20 > My thought originally was to just fold ahcpd into dnsmasq, but I spent = a grand total of a day on it and realized that it was harder than I = thought. Second thought was to make ahcpd listen on the netifd message = bus, that too was harder than I thought. Neither is "hard", actually, = but it needs some focused time by someone, preferably not me. Juliusz = went to ietf hoping to convince someone that dhcpv6 and SLAAC are not = the answer to all things (which I agree with), but there was = insufficient time to present on the topic.=20 >=20 > AHCPD is a zillion times easier to use than dhcpv6, particularly in = meshy environments, it's also more effective. >=20 > While most of the ipv6 stuff in openwrt is going increasingly well, = AND we just got working multi-prefix routing fixed in the linux kernel = (not sure if the IPV6_subtrees spatches are committed or backported = yet), there are still integration hassles with ipv6 going on. (I expect = integration hassles for years, actually - dealing with the pure dynamic = assignments the isps are demanding is nearly impossible) >=20 > In particular the ongoing work on dnsmasq is now out of sync with the = 6relayd work and vice versa. Back in january, when we obsoleted radvd, = it looked like dnsmasq was going to take over ipv6 ra, dhcpv6, and = naming duties, but 6relayd then made serious progress and does most of = that itself and is (at least presently) more tightly integrated with = openwrt than dnsmasq is.=20 >=20 > On the one side, I strongly support tight naming integration with ipv6 = address assignment, which is why I like the dnsmasq integration (which = is what cerowrt uses). Naming is a real pita with ipv6. (The ipv6 folk = have spent a lot of time NOT thinking about it.). I would like ahcpd to = also support some level of naming, too. >=20 > On the other, I like several things that 6relayd does that dnsmasq = can't (and probably shouldn't) >=20 > On the gripping hand, the elephant in the room is decent multicast dns = and service discovery over ipv6, and mdnsext over routed networks in = general. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cheshire-mdnsext-hybrid-02 - = avaha is huge, and buggy, and the mac guys have mdns figured out pretty = good, so it would be best (IMHO) to follow their lead.... >=20 > I really don't know what to do about all that! >=20 > I tried to get the core developers of these tools to drink some beer = and bang their heads together at that ietf, don't know if that happened. = cc-ing a couple here. Cerowrt exists to test this sort of stuff. At the = moment, though, figuring out how to backport the ADSL htb fixes from = Linux 3.11 into 3.10 is on my mind higher... and doing one more teeny = fix to codel, as well. >=20 > Seeing ipv6_subtrees work was very exciting, it's going to make things = like mptcp and vpns and multiple exit gateways work much better on ipv6, = enable a whole new generation of usefulness in ipv6 routing protocols, = etc - eventually. >=20 > http://patchwork.ozlabs.org/patch/265288/ >=20 > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boutier-homenet-source-specific-routing-0= 0 >=20 > The overall "fight" vs a vs ahcpd is that the path homenet is on is to = drag in an entire routing protocol (ospf) just to do ipv6 prefix = assignment, and methods for carrying other useful configuration = information around have not been well defined. >=20 > So this was juliusz's argument, unpresented: >=20 > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-chroboczek-homenet-configuration-separate= -00 >=20 > I have always thought ahcpd was a good start, but far from complete, = and dhcpv6 hopelessly overengineered and worse, inappropriate for the = wireless age. I also have no idea what to do about that!=20 >=20 > Welcome to future. You can help shape it, if you choose. >=20 > /me pulls a pillow over his head >=20 > --=20 > Dave T=E4ht >=20 > Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: = http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html