From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bifrost.lang.hm (mail.lang.hm [64.81.33.126]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7314D21F220 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:39:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from asgard.lang.hm (asgard.lang.hm [10.0.0.100]) by bifrost.lang.hm (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id t0Q4dNS3011097; Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:39:24 -0800 Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2015 20:39:23 -0800 (PST) From: David Lang X-X-Sender: dlang@asgard.lang.hm To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu In-Reply-To: <11071.1422246330@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Message-ID: References: <54B5D28A.3010906@gmail.com> <7B1EA8F0-FCB6-4A37-950F-2558FC751DE8@gmail.com> <54C038D0.1000305@gmail.com> <54C0BD22.3000608@gmail.com> <54C13F47.1010203@gmail.com> <1422111577.328132080@apps.rackspace.com> <1422217048.025611275@apps.rackspace.com> <11071.1422246330@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Recording RF management info _and_ associated traffic? X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:40:03 -0000 On Sun, 25 Jan 2015, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: >> The Computer Scientist will cringe at the 'hacks' that this introduces, but >> there is far more progress made when new capabilities can be added in a way >> that's transparent to other layers of the stack then when it requires major >> changes to how things work. > > Otherwise known as the "Just throw an F5 in front of the whole mess" school > of network design... :) Much as you may hate the abuse of standards and protocols that F5 and other load balancers use to trick both clients and servers into operating without knowing that there are multiple machines serving a website, they do make things a lot more better than if you tried make a website reliable and scale without them. "theoretically better" is trumped by "it works" any day. For something that's theoretically better to win it needs to be implemented and be better in practice as well. David Lang