[Cerowrt-devel] not exactly the most positive outcome

[Cerowrt-devel] not exactly the most positive outcome

[Dave Taht]

From: https://www.cirrent.com/emerging-wi-fi-trends/

"As Wi-Fi becomes a bigger part of our daily lives, expect that our
broadband ISPs will likely move to extend their demarcation
point(demarc for short). This demarc will quickly shift away from
where it resides today, on the cable modem or DSL router, to the air
interface on the Wi-Fi access points in our home. Carriers have
already been using Wi-Fi enabled cable modems and DSL routers for some
years now. However, with the advances I’ve mentioned, I expect to see
almost every broadband ISP offer an in-home Wi-Fi mesh solution as a
standard part of their broadband service over the next two to three
years.

The main motivation for the ISPs is to quickly get to a point where
they can offer their users a high quality, secure Wi-Fi network that
provides improved coverage throughout the whole home. These
carrier-controlled Wi-Fi mesh networks will allow us to still have our
private networks running alongside their networks and both will run on
the same equipment. The upshot is that we won’t have to buy our own
Wi-Fi mesh solutions and will be able to use those provided by our
ISPs, like the vast majority of us already do today."




-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] not exactly the most positive outcome

[dpreed]

It's a terrible outcome.  However, there is literally no significant support for the alternative, either from a policy basis or from entrepreneurial folks. N-O-N-E.

I am biased towards the entrepreneurial side, but have been fighting this on the policy side as well in one form or another since 1994 (when we began trying to legalize UWB).

People just take for granted that having their communications controlled "end-to-end" by some third party (e.g. The Phone Company) is optimal for them.  After all, AT&T Bell Labs created the Internet and the WWW.



On Tuesday, July 26, 2016 1:23pm, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:

> From: https://www.cirrent.com/emerging-wi-fi-trends/
> 
> "As Wi-Fi becomes a bigger part of our daily lives, expect that our
> broadband ISPs will likely move to extend their demarcation
> point(demarc for short). This demarc will quickly shift away from
> where it resides today, on the cable modem or DSL router, to the air
> interface on the Wi-Fi access points in our home. Carriers have
> already been using Wi-Fi enabled cable modems and DSL routers for some
> years now. However, with the advances I’ve mentioned, I expect to see
> almost every broadband ISP offer an in-home Wi-Fi mesh solution as a
> standard part of their broadband service over the next two to three
> years.
> 
> The main motivation for the ISPs is to quickly get to a point where
> they can offer their users a high quality, secure Wi-Fi network that
> provides improved coverage throughout the whole home. These
> carrier-controlled Wi-Fi mesh networks will allow us to still have our
> private networks running alongside their networks and both will run on
> the same equipment. The upshot is that we won’t have to buy our own
> Wi-Fi mesh solutions and will be able to use those provided by our
> ISPs, like the vast majority of us already do today."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Dave Täht
> Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
> http://blog.cerowrt.org
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> 

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] not exactly the most positive outcome

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2016, dpreed@reed.com wrote:

> People just take for granted that having their communications controlled 
> "end-to-end" by some third party (e.g. The Phone Company) is optimal for 
> them.  After all, AT&T Bell Labs created the Internet and the WWW.

"people" (the general term) just want their Internet access to work. They 
don't want to learn how to set it up themselves, they don't want to muck 
around in boxes, and they want it to be cheap, fast and rock solid, all 
the time. They want to set it up once and work great and don't want to 
have to think about it again.

They also call the ISP and complain that the ISP service is bad when they 
stuck the ISP wifi enabled residential gateway in the back of some lower 
corner cabinet behind all the stuff, and hoped they never would have to 
see or interact with it again.

With speed increasing, 5GHz, potentially 60GHz etc, in order to deliver a 
decent service to their customers, ISPs have to get involved in their 
customers' residential wifi networks to retain and hopefully increase 
customer satisfaction.

So with that out of the way, how do we still make this as open and 
flexible as possible? Lots of startups and established vendors are 
pitching these solutions to the ISPs, most of them with their own 
proprietary extensions and non-interworking protocols. What's the open and 
flexible alternative?

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] not exactly the most positive outcome

[Dave Taht]

On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2016, dpreed@reed.com wrote:
>
>> People just take for granted that having their communications controlled
>> "end-to-end" by some third party (e.g. The Phone Company) is optimal for
>> them.  After all, AT&T Bell Labs created the Internet and the WWW.
>
>
> "people" (the general term) just want their Internet access to work. They
> don't want to learn how to set it up themselves, they don't want to muck
> around in boxes, and they want it to be cheap, fast and rock solid, all the
> time. They want to set it up once and work great and don't want to have to
> think about it again.
>
> They also call the ISP and complain that the ISP service is bad when they
> stuck the ISP wifi enabled residential gateway in the back of some lower
> corner cabinet behind all the stuff, and hoped they never would have to see
> or interact with it again.
>
> With speed increasing, 5GHz, potentially 60GHz etc, in order to deliver a
> decent service to their customers, ISPs have to get involved in their
> customers' residential wifi networks to retain and hopefully increase
> customer satisfaction.

I note that this is generally a job that has also fallen to 3rd party
consultants and installers, as well as the more geeky family members.
(thankfully, my younger brother took over running my mom's network).

I am all in favor of better, voluntary tools, for people to have,
mortally opposed to an isp having data about my in-home connection
that I have not agreed to share and/or don't have myself.

> So with that out of the way, how do we still make this as open and flexible
> as possible? Lots of startups and established vendors are pitching these
> solutions to the ISPs, most of them with their own proprietary extensions
> and non-interworking protocols. What's the open and flexible alternative?

One - make it mandatory that an ISP is not allowed to lock in their
stuff inside the home demarc, but to allow competition here.

Germany just did that.

http://lwn.net/Articles/695498/

two - make the laws for data privacy and penalties for violating it
strict enough to make a company or government to clearly hand off to
the owner of the equipment.

technologically, I'd like for sufficient standards to emerge so that a
competetive market in "cpe" can continue to exist, innovate, and so
forth.
>
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org