From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x835.google.com (mail-qt1-x835.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::835]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F0EE3B29E for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 06:39:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x835.google.com with SMTP id u8so14035305qtq.12 for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 03:39:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:cc:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=b/12taDN00j5QZCDtmHKKlH/Hh/eHAH/5NpM8Vw0KS0=; b=aEYnv5OE6OTqbxW4oA7yNnP/q4z49REyg3QNdOaGem26kPa70TxflX+bUOxoDF//FJ CDRLL5h08vYa7rgyPllbO/WMRdodQupKKUYKt1fKJ0h0ik46JblbkXC8MWeQc8s3Bynd PwuSI7xm/e+KkiF7mYXn2elt/+IOgckarSHNleDeoxva7QGIyw/0pbPoE/9irwWcJXP1 qixEGCbND3BHJIN6giUfhpDukA8SdexkJNseswPX/jyNxVtpbawGN+v3gTt4e0WZjaIx wh2YKSl5Yx/MMCimxuRcmqJhmtPT8+ADbjyohY8ckRwQCzKyyC20XTRZTENvtKIkb0cw 6kJA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:cc:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=b/12taDN00j5QZCDtmHKKlH/Hh/eHAH/5NpM8Vw0KS0=; b=o+qwFpLkCNaGOI97uIh9Big+YtlRAfXRdSfunowXZVvDXTJnrr0SAnJpDM6wve4DeZ SVT/yAGw9hWbX9C+VoBTQCf2HD2qMuQ1pCCFL/ODbHw9Ufsh2uO3eU9Xjy4G0AJJicJZ qpjggB+TI4wCkHSPjrmD5qiaLfP3VkJUDaV8uXhgOX16tvmEY4pUHpHWWAT1u/9Q4wNN FOKMuQlECS30HXSB3i5Y4g7JUimcO1XpPrqoi4B6nBIUdyL/KKIP2L7eqjxbndAid233 v9buv1AoUYEBB75dmKXKdUvfxha7z9qACBM2z0tEYYBqowYxTfMmV6XzKUm09v5Ei4Bn Y2xg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533eJEL9q6w4w2tFGSXqcd1A5A211wo4b6ytfV6K+J+wdmtRwKBs wZCB0KjmigQ4eCNLLtCiU48= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyqguR16p8LC9c5b9T3YIaLjTcaia+h0BM+M31YdjHrae4/b0mzbsXBiZOVKtNFdffolSjJwA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:622a:14c9:: with SMTP id u9mr1774364qtx.313.1617187177811; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 03:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Wastelandia.local ([2601:401:500:1218:8491:2a84:6678:2c6b]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h11sm1093107qtp.24.2021.03.31.03.39.36 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Mar 2021 03:39:37 -0700 (PDT) To: cerowrt-devel References: <20210331025052.GA10360@mail.taht.net> From: William Allen Simpson Cc: Karl Auerbach , Dave Taht Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 06:39:35 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: geeks, internet X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:39:38 -0000 Thanks. I didn't know about the internet-history mailing list. If I survive my covid vaccination today, I'll join it. (My father died within 4 hours of his 1st Moderna dose.) Strongly agree with Karl Auerbach. I've had the opportunity of living with a (now former) Member of Congress for 20+ years. As I've said many times, all human interaction involves politics. We Internauts designing and implementing standards are also involved in politics, but are very bad at it. On 3/31/21 12:17 AM, Dave Taht wrote: > I note I really like the internet history mailing list. > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Dave Täht > Date: Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 7:50 PM > Subject: geeks, internet > To: > > > ----- Forwarded message from the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via > Internet-history ----- > > Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:52:58 -1000 > From: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via Internet-history > > To: Internet-history > Subject: Re: [ih] Keep the geeks in charge of the internet > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Karl Auerbach > Date: July 12, 2020 at 06:19:26 GMT+9 > > That piece demonstrates why "geeks" should *not* run the Internet. > > Bodies such as ICANN have demonstrated time and time again that they are > incapable of resisting capture by organized business interests, such as the > trademark industry, and the domain name registry industry (which, though > ICANN's decades long self-blindness has created a multi $Billion per year > money pump of monopoly-rent profit.) > > Over the years I've spent a fair amount of time among both "geeks" and > "policymakers". > > There are definitely many very intelligent people in those camps. However > there are relative few "geeks" who understand economics, law, or social > forces. The same can be said of the policymakers - there are many who's > depth of understanding of the Internet is no deeper than having an AOL > email account. > > The voice of experts who know how a thing works, from top to bottom, is > essential. But our world is like the fabled elephant in the tale of the > blind men who each perceive the creature as only the small piece that they > can touch and do not comprehend the total. Those who are experts in one > field are often somewhat blind in other fields. > > This is why we need governance by entities that strive for a synoptic view, > that operate on the basis of respect for all concerns and listen (and > consider) all voices. The organs of decision of such entities ought to be > filled with intelligent, open-minded generalists. Those generalists may > not comprehend the entire elephant, but they will know that whatever it is, > it is more than merely a tail or trunk or tree-like legs. > > (This is part of the foundation of my argument that STEM education needs to > be balanced by a strong dose of liberal arts - we need to tune our > educations machinery to create those smart generalists.) > > For many decades the Internet had an air gap from society. That gap no > longer exists. The Internet is now a fundamental critical infrastructure. > It is also being comprehended as a marvelous tool for control, data > gathering, public-opinion shaping, profit making, and a force in national an > international politics. > > Take the 5G push for example. At its edges it is starting to give off a > scent of attempting to be the new ISO/OSI. There's some good stuff in 5G, > as there was in ISO/OSI. But the decisions about deployment of 5G, it's > frequency bands, its use in vehicle-to-X communications, etc go well beyond > the merely technical. > > If we let "the geeks" run the farm we can expect a lot of new Facebooks and > Zuckerbergs - lots of technology without comprehension of, nor care for, > the social impact. > > Do we really want to resurrect a world run by trade guilds? Is one going > to be required to go through an new kind of apprenticeship in order to have > a say, a say that must be heard even if not accepted, in how we pull and > turn the levers and knobs of our networks, health systems, power grids, > food distribution systems, etc etc? > > Democracy, whether direct or representative, is our imperfect answer. That > path is hard, slow, inefficient, and frustrating. But it is necessary. > > We have to take care to learn from the past. We ought to take a lesson > from things like ICANN, where the voice of the public interest is muted > under thick layers of complicated procedures, costs of effective > participation, and competition from well-funded industrial interests. > > --karl-- > > On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:09 AM *the keyboard of geoff goodfellow > > wrote:* > >> *By enabling people and businesses to remain connected while under >> lockdown, the Internet has helped to prevent the global economy from >> collapsing entirely. And yet the engineer-led nonprofit organizations that >> oversee the stable functioning of the global Internet are again under >> attack.* >> EXCERPT: >> >> The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly transformed the internet into the >> most critical infrastructure on Earth. >> >> By enabling people and businesses to remain connected while under >> lockdown, the internet has helped to prevent the global economy from >> collapsing entirely. Indeed, with fear and social distancing continuing to >> separate many of us, it has become the connective tissue for much human >> interaction and economic activity around the world. >> >> But few appreciate how this critical global resource has remained stable >> and resilient since its inception, even as its scope and scale have >> undergone uninterrupted explosive growth. In an age of widening political, >> economic, and social divisions, how has the “one internet” connecting the >> entire world been sustained? And how can we best continue to protect it? >> >> The answers to both questions start with understanding what makes the >> Internet — which consists of tens of thousands of disparate networks — look >> like and function as one network for all. These components, or unique >> internet identifiers, include Internet Protocol (IP) addresses, which are >> associated with every device connected to the internet, and internet domain >> names (like ft.com, harvard.edu or apple.news), which we use to search >> for and connect to computers easily. >> >> These unique identifiers ensure that, no matter where you are or which >> network you are connected to, you will always get in touch with the right >> computer with the desired domain name, or reach the right target device >> with an embedded IP number (such as a smart thermostat, for example). This >> simple, elegant architecture reflects the genius of a handful of brilliant >> engineers who created the internet a half-century ago. Since then, it has >> never failed to help us locate the billions of devices that have been added >> to the thousands of networks that make up today’s cyber economy. Should the >> identifiers fail, we would experience immediate digital chaos. >> >> Given the identifiers’ critical role, it is imperative that they not be >> compromised or controlled by any authority that is not committed to >> maintaining the internet as an open, global, common good. In the wrong >> hands, they could be used to fragment the Internet and enable top-down >> control of usage and users by governments with malign intentions. And such >> fears are real, given authoritarian governments’ online meddling in >> elections, national security networks and digital commercial transactions >> in the last few years. >> >> So, the key question is who should be entrusted today to maintain the >> security and reliability of internet identifiers. The answer is simple: >> geeks, not governments... >> >> [...] >> >> https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/geeks-not-governments-should-control-the-internet-by-fadi-chehade-2020-07 >> >> >> https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/07/11/commentary/world-commentary/keep-geeks-charge-internet/ >> >> > -- > Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com > living as The Truth is True > -- > Internet-history mailing list > Internet-history@elists.isoc.org > https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > My email server only sends and accepts starttls encrypted mail in transit. > One benefit - it stops all spams thus far, cold. If you are not encrypting > by default you are not going to get my mail or I, yours. > >