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From: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
To: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
Cc: "Dave Täht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>,
	"Dave Taht via Bloat" <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	codel <codel@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Codel] [Bloat] slow start improvement
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2023 08:38:06 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <02C24B24-0436-461E-B198-8F0B4E7326E3@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <B6DE8337-7797-43D2-BBD7-9351D6DB8886@gmx.de>

> On 28 Dec, 2023, at 12:17 pm, Sebastian Moeller via Bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> The inherent idea seems to be if one would know the available capacity one could 'jump' the cwnd immediately to that window... (ignoring the fact the rwnd typically takes a while to increase accordingly*). 

Yes, I've just got to the bit about selectively ignoring rwnd - that's a straight violation of TCP.  There may be scope for optimising congestion control in various ways, but rwnd is a fundamental part of the protocol that predates congestion control itself; it implements TCP's original function of "flow control".  Sending data outside the rwnd invites the receiver invoking RST, or even firewall action, which I can guarantee will have a material impact on flow completion time!

Slow-start already increases cwnd to match the BDP in at most 20 RTTs, and that's the extreme condition, starting from an IW of 1 segment and ramping up to the maximum possible window of 2^30 bytes (assuming an MSS of at least 1KB, which is usual).  The more recent standard of having IW=10 already shortens that by 3-4 RTTs.  It's an exponential process, so even quite large changes in available bandwidth don't affect the convergence time very much.  TCP's adaptation to changes in the BDP after slow-start is considerably slower, even with CUBIC.

I also note a lack of appreciation as to how HyStart (and HyStart++) works.  Their delay-sensitive criterion is triggered not when the cwnd exceeds the BDP, but at an earlier point when the packet bursts (issued at double the natural ack-clocked rate) cause a meaningful amount of temporary queue delay.  This queuing is normally drained almost immediately after it occurs, *precisely because* the cwnd has not yet reached the true path BDP.  This allows slow-start to transition to congestion-avoidance smoothly, without a multiplicative-decrease episode.  HyStart++ adds a further phase of exponential growth on a more cautious schedule, but with essentially the same principle in mind.

The irony is that they rely on precisely the same phenomenon of short-term queuing, but observe it in the form of the limited delivery rate of a burst, rather than an increase in delay on the later packets of the burst.

 - Jonathan Morton

      parent reply	other threads:[~2023-12-29  6:38 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-12-28  3:50 [Codel] " Dave Taht
2023-12-28 10:17 ` [Codel] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-12-28 13:37   ` Dave Taht
     [not found]     ` <5c24b7e0.3a5.18cbf385cbc.Coremail.linganglee@126.com>
2023-12-31 14:50       ` Dave Taht
2023-12-29  6:38   ` Jonathan Morton [this message]

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