From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yw0-f43.google.com (mail-yw0-f43.google.com [209.85.213.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6D18201AF7 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 11:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yhkk6 with SMTP id k6so6768297yhk.16 for ; Mon, 07 May 2012 11:50:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=vPd+ZvWewUUqkxVCP7iU5sd3IzNfAaCzwx0uh6jdBCI=; b=F0UK3VA4J/9niNPsmoLs3b85Cd2+OFBhELp5ZW/C5Zg+/4IO1LRTDlMolyzqwX+O+C mcmYbSKCAttLGdwPXPx9I+UDksBwbmkbHYIRlqAGewa4//mWJhMqxcAjwgZsQmDTrtVl gi1XBH9Y5iJCvUBf39/HLcpiO8U1KTHqcu9p7vPjcWuzMS7Kj4OwBgp7sKXtjSxf6rWY eecRkJ1rX6DBMi/2SMsZkT1e4FBhNaLvlDXcDJwKucK+X4AlzpixF9ms8EQHZl+t+xFJ DkcPfq3C9nU+xWgqMSfWroLGBkQAknXAScIj2Qpk1EarHV75U3RPw1I1fU0KeSVpjkPN W5WQ== Received: by 10.236.191.138 with SMTP id g10mr555047yhn.25.1336416639445; Mon, 07 May 2012 11:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.81] (c-50-138-162-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [50.138.162.108]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id g4sm32912604yhf.12.2012.05.07.11.50.37 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 May 2012 11:50:38 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Jim Gettys Message-ID: <4FA8197C.4090909@freedesktop.org> Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 14:50:36 -0400 From: Jim Gettys Organization: Bell Labs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Taht References: <1336246349-20228-1-git-send-email-dave.taht@bufferbloat.net> <4FA7FBC7.2040501@hp.com> <1336410626.3752.2329.camel@edumazet-glaptop> <4FA805F9.20004@hp.com> <1336412079.3752.2333.camel@edumazet-glaptop> <4FA81549.5060609@freedesktop.org> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Eric Dumazet , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, Dave Taht Subject: Re: [Codel] [PATCH 1/2] codel: Controlled Delay AQM X-BeenThere: codel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: CoDel AQM discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 18:50:41 -0000 On 05/07/2012 02:44 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Jim Gettys wrote: >> On 05/07/2012 01:52 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >>> ecn: >>> >>> ecn was not in the paper (and it's working well) and I'd like to live >>> in a world where ecn was the default. I think. Others disagree. >>> >>> so perhaps ecn and noecn? And ecn be the default (after some serious testing?) >>> >> I think noecn *must* be the default at the moment. There is still too >> much brokenness out there (though it is improving); Steve Bauer can >> enlighten us how much. > Possibly influenced by how hard it is to cycle builds on embedded > hardware and test one thing at a time, > as well as the space program's major success at shortening the path to > the moon, I am an advocate of all-up-testing. > > http://www.nasa.gov/offices/oce/appel/ask-academy/issues/ask-oce/AO_1-7_F_snapshot.html > > Going with ecn enabled by default, and being aware that it might cause > problems, will > result in less time being spent testing each individually. > > I note that on an ingress qdisc ecn has mildly less risk as it only > tests the router and host device. > > On egress, yes, you're testing the whole internet. You want to turn it on in CeroWrt: sure. Expert audience, who may be able to notice when things go sour, fine.... Neither you, nor I are expert at the current state of ECN in the global Internet: but Steve Bauer is. We can have that conversation with him shortly. So for now "First, do no harm" should be our mantra.... So the upstream patch default state should be off. We don't want to mix "codel doesn't work" with "ecn is busted someplace", as it gets its trials. - Jim