From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pz0-f43.google.com (mail-pz0-f43.google.com [209.85.210.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4E5A201B70 for ; Mon, 7 May 2012 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by dajz8 with SMTP id z8so9194691daj.16 for ; Mon, 07 May 2012 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=up0EbJQTNFxczl5NVBTNzbHy5oNjXOe+dT+2FOb08y4=; b=YMk+6CSCMwtYEPw3jBOTZVLj08kyitSaUjcLbtqSLSi4+oUV5ZQsGr66AlvT+CJv5o 8HsP9jylcBLTmJmCIfKaB0SqP6t89bGk3HYc4+/5QhxuOkiD2930PQKgWkN9DQBFTBFy zXJlSFt594qfqXQk1N2wFCshqulckXqeCfI1ay6fNI52YTuw8xyXftDCzSVO4Bj9EWAj sd35HnGY/NuRJzqYXodpFU0HK2hY9fao9zBe83k+EgJBgFfAw30XhX9VH3zTxpsziG51 cFltLbQezismOOiSOuqeuHlmam6sCURkMrShL4GN3FwpfPMoRXU6DL9hBOrz95eEHI5f JY9w== Received: by 10.68.219.166 with SMTP id pp6mr2185279pbc.35.1336440019202; Mon, 07 May 2012 18:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from andrewm-lo.ws.atlnz.lc (gate1.alliedtelesyn.co.nz. [202.49.72.36]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pd3sm515727pbc.53.2012.05.07.18.20.14 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 07 May 2012 18:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D215A51D-9F9D-4CC5-835B-B80E58668473"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 From: Andrew McGregor In-Reply-To: <4FA873A0.40803@freedesktop.org> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:20:10 +1200 Message-Id: References: <1336246349-20228-1-git-send-email-dave.taht@bufferbloat.net> <4FA7FBC7.2040501@hp.com> <1336410626.3752.2329.camel@edumazet-glaptop> <4FA805F9.20004@hp.com> <1336412079.3752.2333.camel@edumazet-glaptop> <4FA81549.5060609@freedesktop.org> <4FA8197C.4090909@freedesktop.org> <1336418211.3752.2353.camel@edumazet-glaptop> <4FA82422.9040500@freedesktop.org> <1336421020.3752.2359.camel@edumazet-glaptop> <4FA873A0.40803@freedesktop.org> To: Jim Gettys X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) Cc: Eric Dumazet , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, Dave Taht Subject: Re: [Codel] [PATCH 1/2] codel: Controlled Delay AQM X-BeenThere: codel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: CoDel AQM discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 01:20:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D215A51D-9F9D-4CC5-835B-B80E58668473 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 8/05/2012, at 1:15 PM, Jim Gettys wrote: > On 05/07/2012 04:03 PM, Eric Dumazet wrote: >> On Mon, 2012-05-07 at 15:36 -0400, Jim Gettys wrote: >>=20 >>> I think it is safe for it to behave the rest of the way Linux ECN >>> support does right now: it only gets used if the peer requests it. >>>=20 >>> Not clear to me there needs to be/should be any option at all: the = last >>> conversation I had with Steve Bauer was that something north of 20% = of >>> conversations were ECN capable. Is there one for the other instances = of >>> ECN support in Linux? If so, it should be keyed by the same = variable, >>> and not be a one-off for codel. >>>=20 >> SFB, one of the latest qdisc added in linux has ECN support enabled. >>=20 >> There is no option to disable it, because I felt it was safe. Maybe I >> was a fool, but problem is I am not sure SFB is even used. >=20 > Client initiated ECN may still be problematic. It is *fine* if a = system > responds to ECN that is sent to it. We know that is fine, as Linux = has > had the server side of ECN enabled for quite a few years, and those > systems now are > 20% of servers on the internet. >=20 >=20 > What we don't want is to get a pile of codel bug reports that are = really > ECN related problems, of which we know there are quite a few. > - Jim >=20 Sure... but making the Linux codel ECN capable, and even on by default = with no configuration, will have no effect if the clients don't use ECN. = So there's no need to even make it optional, let alone default to off. That way, we don't get bug reports of 'codel doesn't do ECN'. 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