From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
To: "David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com>
Cc: Luca Muscariello <muscariello@ieee.org>,
Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Leonard Kleinrock <lk@cs.ucla.edu>,
Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>,
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, codel@lists.bufferbloat.net,
cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Codel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAA93jw5QyH4SqKT07hP+skijfimZ0GU=AgLJtkVOQGzKrAkazg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com>
I just wanted to comment on how awesome this thread was, and how few
people outside this group deeply grok what was discussed here. I would
so like
to somehow construct an educational TV series explaining "How the
Internet really works" to a wider, and new audience, consisting of
animations, anecdotes,
and interviews with the key figures of its evolution.
While I deeply understood Len Kleinrock's work in the period
2011-2015, and tried to pass on analogies and intuition without using
the math since, inspired by van jacobson's
analogies and Radia Perlman's poetry, it's hard for me now to follow
the argument. Queue theory in particular, is not well known or taught
anymore, despite its obvious applications to things like the Covid
crisis.
But that would be just one thing! The end to end argument, the side
effects of spitting postscript into a lego robot, what actually
happens during a web page load, how a cpu actually works, are all
things that are increasingly lost in multiple mental models, and in my
mind many could be taught in kindergarden, if we worked at explaining
it hard enough.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-09-20 1:22 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-07-01 0:12 [Codel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board Dave Taht
[not found] ` <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com>
2021-07-02 17:07 ` [Codel] [Cerowrt-devel] " Dave Taht
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvrjgKnfe_jaGgx7_B1VDTkZfTmP0OyTmxL9ojWoxogrsA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-06 13:46 ` [Codel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Ben Greear
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvqSkcGZBZ+iHY-g0vSunqe1sFHmvoFXGjWSoYvtwHeHaA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-06 21:24 ` Ben Greear
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvodW0WNeHAfRHLB6NhDT6+maWVnoR14+setpzCWnwiPTQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-07 13:34 ` Ben Greear
[not found] ` <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com>
[not found] ` <FDF5C7A7-47A6-4123-A948-352C07C35F02@cs.ucla.edu>
2021-07-09 10:05 ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Luca Muscariello
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvqsZFDDkC1qjr9ccXNjFtq1qnAevQpccNFydP4BOVVL1Q@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-02 23:16 ` [Codel] [Cake] " David Lang
2021-08-02 23:55 ` Ben Greear
[not found] ` <CAHb6Lvp851pVCt+zUv1PZgpHafCG4RPXEwMn6=CJFXhVf9fK8w@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03 3:12 ` David Lang
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvqfRxKU0BW04ypRcPDpCcWymnS6qzb3gneQSbBrAbRhHQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03 4:30 ` David Lang
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvpcawqCvgt5MmhXADYG=oaY5rbdaC=7ETwOVzpHXak2kQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03 4:44 ` David Lang
[not found] ` <202108101410.17AEAR4w075939@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
[not found] ` <5AF5551E2A7041168E7071FDA0F6B8EC@SRA6>
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvpAmUKgsMAoZGrbAvS01DF=yWyJj56ox+FrDM_tEc=0Ng@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <03CA2CDA3EC5415DA229F835BE039994@SRA6>
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvoiVZq91m-C3iJFC95fYLPHCY3zQo6O0XTUDAJquu5KbQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <92A399A23FEE4C52ADFC1734E6840756@SRA6>
[not found] ` <CACw=56K_Sj24FAO17cY4vDYhe1-gAXW_fQKLSBKSMqSE0kCRmA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-10 20:44 ` [Codel] [Starlink] Anhyone have a spare couple a hundred million ... Elon may need to start a go-fund-me page! David Lang
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvpK48u+8coP1pWJVjva_jYaQa-bGuArAGnf8ku-=xoSBw@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03 3:06 ` [Codel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board David Lang
[not found] ` <8677F5C4-1893-4A61-A13C-3C8BE17CB789@cs.ucla.edu>
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvpQP_jCiHeNJAD9qt+wB-HqUAW7N6aGJ+6-PXg+KE5Z2Q@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <4F6EFB347C08475A9F53B24E0D8BEAE2@SRA6>
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvqUctN5SMcqgZNh5u7=nJhtWOuXEmh59PPYag2g+xVrtw@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-08 18:36 ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cake] " Aaron Wood
2021-08-08 18:48 ` [Codel] [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
[not found] ` <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com>
[not found] ` <BCD9F979-341F-4292-9D11-FAE91FC3967E@akamai.com>
2021-07-09 23:37 ` [Codel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
[not found] ` <8C38E940-8B97-4767-A39B-25F043AE0856@cs.ucla.edu>
2021-07-09 23:56 ` Jonathan Morton
2021-07-17 23:56 ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] " Aaron Wood
[not found] ` <EF8D7620-438A-4F65-94D9-B35FDB76FBBD@cable.comcast.com>
[not found] ` <1626111630.69692379@apps.rackspace.com>
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvoD+ACc+17WhTVmS8HYnYyboJrCg5zQF8uXtzrmqqKfPA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-12 19:07 ` [Codel] " Ben Greear
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvpyQtGg3sMF2RV_gMpEcaY32A70VaEwtsnoeq4DHtv7EA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-12 20:32 ` Ben Greear
2021-07-12 20:36 ` [Codel] [Cake] " David Lang
2021-07-17 23:29 ` [Codel] " Aaron Wood
2021-07-12 21:54 ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] " Jonathan Morton
2021-09-20 1:21 ` Dave Taht [this message]
[not found] ` <257851.1632110422@turing-police>
2021-09-20 4:09 ` [Codel] [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] " David Lang
[not found] ` <CABf5zv+yq_oJ7O7YqVeSbZ2Qns3C4hESzNA2V0zNb0L1Zg-mgw@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAHxHggd-4rZ5Nc4raaoRUjjL17MVh8UsNu_5eL8eiLJ=R_68wA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAHb6Lvp86iw=DQMN8Z+f7yUJu-5pmVUxsM1_1Jw8RJb2XRcMcg@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <1632680642.869711321@apps.rackspace.com>
[not found] ` <CAHb6Lvp1dxnbuCNiE5FKC-yRyD6HGkb0H1ZQAm_nSxANwJg2pA@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <E3373586-EF4C-40DF-885B-0D6134E6EAF1@apple.com>
2021-10-26 4:24 ` [Codel] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] TCP_NOTSENT_LOWAT applied to e2e TCP msg latency Eric Dumazet
[not found] ` <CAHb6Lvomc+2y++qOm9v3OzYCdmWDUEROJb+unybj0Mir0faXQQ@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAKf5G6JpeaxRkbwhuNE5zUb7tX3H4eo0HOuX+C0DCSrcg4Byhg@mail.gmail.com>
[not found] ` <CAHb6LvpUBKFGUTnuafGxQAJBfNEO=zS20SvxTJ88e6VJAP54=g@mail.gmail.com>
2021-10-27 14:29 ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
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