From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8A4B3B29E; Mon, 11 Mar 2019 06:12:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id v10so4315783qtp.8; Mon, 11 Mar 2019 03:12:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=BEvrRyEbSU2oJLs6OSzBlXw0LBuYXnBTwmm3rmQjR7o=; b=aeWa42eyJVzmNJWJAiIL3OK6OgstsfBj9ZYte4PF/B7jGVGOu8oJ9SdjD9MtPaz6BQ WzhJWAJ/NoF7G64WzU1MSjvAq2KHVs//87dyqXyjTnENiE/cSvmAZonaVRhhqXdicAI8 ObEHZXUPlUP5VHXxOlZ5uAA8fDBgh/yNTugWC/YffkOSYRx8XxDPl5n9hj7iTOZy1Iyo lhU8ZGLspxzc8Bg5sdQmt6VP0EwoYryGQN0RmbsNc5yw4Bm10jsGwejXWvrYi/plzYOS zGc1ysmchuWjq+N5xTgEuoQvcWgDtnOfptcCLI6n+HgcaqjgLTfSehBcQIy4K0uEsbK5 VRmQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BEvrRyEbSU2oJLs6OSzBlXw0LBuYXnBTwmm3rmQjR7o=; b=k0A2Yxyz376UQouKnIJNXFdxANNEZG2qxzf7Jgud96ZvVHdzfZMzrXnJHWcparOdy2 hbN4m3RXGY35SgMe5+l0S/l6cVd8PgNG+I1yv6omt4bedrXJ9IhfDg8qEqUy4zAP2McF PK4cSOJsMAE98qvHLWayxMOTFJixei1rnofkmI0ku0X25NaCZFmb57uOwilbPgGiFg0g OEZj78b8G+o3hKcJVk30nS+M8RWdbt2WNSRAaS6vXELwZcJdQC9zuVpEvEL1kt/pdEt4 dArFBaVcWuHWr2OBdiGe8/5zEpZHWH8bSSUkxcmFNrlKeNr3maHXebFhzJg+xIRmTb+b oIcw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWWfXbCZt94uO6espo8zy08ZHROl5keKSGvgSvVTeAQ4GqU++fW pELT8Lzr/IWEWYWJ0qsdkXeahKDxqYxsMJ3pscE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwetpUmhOhMT4rJYO2+1y2/Z/iml16uft7E2BtRjfrsfKY4+crQzIHhfmZmHpFafTLoGuG9GDtKqKjbWodBcYo= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:1c7c:: with SMTP id j57mr12494428qtk.376.1552299120269; Mon, 11 Mar 2019 03:12:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <550C0248-1704-49DA-ABDC-49A91E0AC6F3@akamai.com> <1EE25778-8571-4506-A334-38C544470ACE@gmail.com> <2594F939-829A-443C-B1FE-2193F870E48B@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 03:11:47 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: Jonathan Morton , Cake List , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "codel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Codel] [Bloat] The "Some Congestion Experienced" ECN codepoint - a new internet draft - X-BeenThere: codel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CoDel AQM discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 10:12:01 -0000 Everybody, calm down. I put this out merely to get comment before we submitted the first of several drafts. That draft is now submitted and we've asked for a talk slot in the tsvwg for it. I cc'd the world to get quick initial feedback, and I want to shut this overbroad conversation down and move it to just the ecn-sane mailing list. The l4s mailing list is dead, and the debates on the AQM mailing list and here, unhelpful - for decades. So, back in august I started a new working group here, under house rules that I thought would be more productive, and asked that people that wanted to debate ecn more sanely, join. few did. And jon and I have been working for months (and largely not on the list) to try and create a compromise proposal of which y'all just saw the first output. There's more in the bufferbloat-rfcs repo. The rules for joining the ecn-sane list are simple - take the time to step back and write a write a short position paper, and join (or create) a team. You needn't do that immediately. If you disagree with the rules of operation of the ecn-sane working group, submit a pull request or file a bug on the web site. where we can discuss it. Ironically our ssl cert just expired and I don't remember how to fix it. Please join the ecn-sane mailing list for discussing this stuff and stop cc-ing the whole bufferbloat.net world on it, please.