From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qc0-x229.google.com (mail-qc0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A3ED21F1A9 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:20:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qc0-f169.google.com with SMTP id c10so3950471qcz.0 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:20:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=MJgs2zcMQFRNKObdBgSXM6szFIzSo1jE7YJ8Hrfz2i8=; b=jn7RtIosvNvdZjFRqH498zpIBp0lgvIXlt4mquBG2GD/xpA6frv04Rai1Qrl1g+aCh Bh0QNxwCP0rRxW/V3NJbd1pUGEzHjjzZt/iyJbJJwnpIp3xRPwJ3ExUooi5/Iv9sDJyb JPI2Vf2NBiq8WBE8w+S/VPH9vNnzwE/Ttc1olfMcLct64l1Tku3IDDo604fc7AD/NJjC rnlQU+Ya/B2hCfNfj0AuRr5vwEJrzJbrI+xJoTgZlOE8VIrd20Pjo2qBSVhdKm9UJbGA PHMB/3OABh1pov5B7xL6gkxceqhXJWCROYkgF3ui925SbnRFDcDVXm2IxNtgG/0peRTo IR7A== X-Received: by 10.229.92.196 with SMTP id s4mr6376545qcm.5.1373487605860; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:20:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: winstein@gmail.com Received: by 10.229.93.2 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:19:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Keith Winstein Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 16:19:25 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 1JockSsgOgi9hiNB2_zoREiXoLw Message-ID: To: Dave Taht Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11331414d9d04b04e12e0013 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 13:22:42 -0700 Cc: codel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Codel] sprout X-BeenThere: codel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: CoDel AQM discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:20:07 -0000 --001a11331414d9d04b04e12e0013 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank, Dave. We have a Web site with more info, a talk, and source code ( http://alfalfa.mit.edu) if anybody is interested. Something that may interest folks here is that we compared Sprout-over-unlimited-buffer with TCP-Cubic-over-CoDel on these cellular-type links. That is, a scenario where the network operators implemented CoDel inside the LTE/UMTS/1xEV-DO base station (for the downlink) and the phone manufacturers implemented CoDel inside the "baseband" chip for the uplink. Bottom line results is that for the case where a cellular user can control all their own flows, it's roughly a wash. To a first approximation, you can fix bufferbloat on a cellular network *either* by putting CoDel inside the base station and baseband chip (and otherwise running the same endpoint TCP), *or* by changing the endpoints but leaving the base station and baseband chip unmodified. Obviously we benefit dramatically from the per-user queues of the cellular network. By contrast, in a typical house with a bufferbloated cable modem where one user can cause big delays for everybody else, you can't fix bufferbloat by fixing just one endpoint. We will have some results soon on whether you can fix it by fixing all the endpoints (but still leaving the "bloated" gateway intact). Cheers, Keith On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > I haven't been paying a lot of attention to rmcat and webrtc until > recently, although I'd had a nice discussion with keith on it a while > back.. > > this particular thread sums up some interesting issues on that front. > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmcat/current/msg00390.html > > -- > Dave T=E4ht > > Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: > http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html > --001a11331414d9d04b04e12e0013 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank, Dave.

We have a Web site with more info, a talk, = and source code (http://alfalfa.mit.edu<= /a>) if anybody is interested.


Obviously we benefit dramatically from the per-user que= ues of the cellular network. By contrast, in a typical house with a bufferb= loated cable modem where one user can cause big delays for everybody else, = you can't fix bufferbloat by fixing just one endpoint. We will have som= e results soon on whether you can fix it by fixing all the endpoints (but s= till leaving the "bloated" gateway intact).

Cheers,
Keith

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Dave Taht <dave.= taht@gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't been paying a lot of attention= to rmcat and webrtc until
recently, although I'd had a nice discussion with keith on it a while back..

this particular thread sums up some interesting issues on that front.

http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmcat/current/msg0= 0390.html

--
Dave T=E4ht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscrib= e.html

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