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From: Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>, Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>
Cc: Luca Muscariello <muscariello@ieee.org>,
	Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Leonard Kleinrock <lk@cs.ucla.edu>,
	starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, codel@lists.bufferbloat.net,
	cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Codel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:55:03 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <e9302d22-8a4a-a74b-658d-c5d4c1c88987@candelatech.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <nycvar.QRO.7.76.6.2108021607160.810590@qynat-yncgbc>

On 8/2/21 4:16 PM, David Lang wrote:
> If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, you need to include the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF, not with wired networks and 
> are commonly overlooked
> 
> 1. station A can hear station B and C but they cannot hear each other
> 2. station A can hear station B but station B cannot hear station A 3. station A can hear that station B is transmitting, but not with a strong enough signal to 
> decode the signal (yes in theory you can work around interference, but in practice interference is still a real thing)
> 
> David Lang
> 

To add to this, I think you need lots of different station devices, different capabilities (/n, /ac, /ax, etc)
different numbers of spatial streams, and different distances from the AP.  From download queueing perspective, changing
the capabilities may be sufficient while keeping all stations at same distance.  This assumes you are not
actually testing the wifi rate-ctrl alg. itself, so different throughput levels for different stations would be enough.

So, a good station emulator setup (and/or pile of real stations) and a few RF chambers and
programmable attenuators and you can test that setup...

 From upload perspective, I guess same setup would do the job.  Queuing/fairness might depend a bit more on the
station devices, emulated or otherwise, but I guess a clever AP could enforce fairness in upstream direction
too by implementing per-sta queues.

Thanks,
Ben

-- 
Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
Candela Technologies Inc  http://www.candelatech.com

  reply	other threads:[~2021-08-02 23:55 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-01  0:12 [Codel] " Dave Taht
     [not found] ` <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com>
2021-07-02 17:07   ` [Codel] [Cerowrt-devel] " Dave Taht
     [not found]     ` <CAHb6LvrjgKnfe_jaGgx7_B1VDTkZfTmP0OyTmxL9ojWoxogrsA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-06 13:46       ` [Codel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Ben Greear
     [not found]         ` <CAHb6LvqSkcGZBZ+iHY-g0vSunqe1sFHmvoFXGjWSoYvtwHeHaA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-06 21:24           ` Ben Greear
     [not found]             ` <CAHb6LvodW0WNeHAfRHLB6NhDT6+maWVnoR14+setpzCWnwiPTQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-07 13:34               ` Ben Greear
     [not found]         ` <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com>
     [not found]           ` <FDF5C7A7-47A6-4123-A948-352C07C35F02@cs.ucla.edu>
2021-07-09 10:05             ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Luca Muscariello
     [not found]               ` <CAHb6LvqsZFDDkC1qjr9ccXNjFtq1qnAevQpccNFydP4BOVVL1Q@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-02 23:16                 ` [Codel] [Cake] " David Lang
2021-08-02 23:55                   ` Ben Greear [this message]
     [not found]                     ` <CAHb6Lvp851pVCt+zUv1PZgpHafCG4RPXEwMn6=CJFXhVf9fK8w@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03  3:12                       ` David Lang
     [not found]                         ` <CAHb6LvqfRxKU0BW04ypRcPDpCcWymnS6qzb3gneQSbBrAbRhHQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03  4:30                           ` David Lang
     [not found]                             ` <CAHb6LvpcawqCvgt5MmhXADYG=oaY5rbdaC=7ETwOVzpHXak2kQ@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03  4:44                               ` David Lang
     [not found]                           ` <202108101410.17AEAR4w075939@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
     [not found]                             ` <5AF5551E2A7041168E7071FDA0F6B8EC@SRA6>
     [not found]                               ` <CAHb6LvpAmUKgsMAoZGrbAvS01DF=yWyJj56ox+FrDM_tEc=0Ng@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                 ` <03CA2CDA3EC5415DA229F835BE039994@SRA6>
     [not found]                                   ` <CAHb6LvoiVZq91m-C3iJFC95fYLPHCY3zQo6O0XTUDAJquu5KbQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                     ` <92A399A23FEE4C52ADFC1734E6840756@SRA6>
     [not found]                                       ` <CACw=56K_Sj24FAO17cY4vDYhe1-gAXW_fQKLSBKSMqSE0kCRmA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-10 20:44                                         ` [Codel] [Starlink] Anhyone have a spare couple a hundred million ... Elon may need to start a go-fund-me page! David Lang
     [not found]                   ` <CAHb6LvpK48u+8coP1pWJVjva_jYaQa-bGuArAGnf8ku-=xoSBw@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-03  3:06                     ` [Codel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board David Lang
     [not found]                   ` <8677F5C4-1893-4A61-A13C-3C8BE17CB789@cs.ucla.edu>
     [not found]                     ` <CAHb6LvpQP_jCiHeNJAD9qt+wB-HqUAW7N6aGJ+6-PXg+KE5Z2Q@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                       ` <4F6EFB347C08475A9F53B24E0D8BEAE2@SRA6>
     [not found]                         ` <CAHb6LvqUctN5SMcqgZNh5u7=nJhtWOuXEmh59PPYag2g+xVrtw@mail.gmail.com>
2021-08-08 18:36                           ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cake] " Aaron Wood
2021-08-08 18:48                             ` [Codel] [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
     [not found]               ` <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com>
     [not found]                 ` <BCD9F979-341F-4292-9D11-FAE91FC3967E@akamai.com>
2021-07-09 23:37                   ` [Codel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
     [not found]                 ` <8C38E940-8B97-4767-A39B-25F043AE0856@cs.ucla.edu>
2021-07-09 23:56                   ` Jonathan Morton
2021-07-17 23:56                     ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] " Aaron Wood
     [not found]                 ` <EF8D7620-438A-4F65-94D9-B35FDB76FBBD@cable.comcast.com>
     [not found]                   ` <1626111630.69692379@apps.rackspace.com>
     [not found]                     ` <CAHb6LvoD+ACc+17WhTVmS8HYnYyboJrCg5zQF8uXtzrmqqKfPA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-12 19:07                       ` [Codel] " Ben Greear
     [not found]                         ` <CAHb6LvpyQtGg3sMF2RV_gMpEcaY32A70VaEwtsnoeq4DHtv7EA@mail.gmail.com>
2021-07-12 20:32                           ` Ben Greear
2021-07-12 20:36                             ` [Codel] [Cake] " David Lang
2021-07-17 23:29                             ` [Codel] " Aaron Wood
2021-07-12 21:54                           ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] " Jonathan Morton
2021-09-20  1:21                 ` [Codel] " Dave Taht
     [not found]                   ` <257851.1632110422@turing-police>
2021-09-20  4:09                     ` [Codel] [Bloat] [Cerowrt-devel] " David Lang
     [not found]                     ` <CABf5zv+yq_oJ7O7YqVeSbZ2Qns3C4hESzNA2V0zNb0L1Zg-mgw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                       ` <CAHxHggd-4rZ5Nc4raaoRUjjL17MVh8UsNu_5eL8eiLJ=R_68wA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                         ` <CAHb6Lvp86iw=DQMN8Z+f7yUJu-5pmVUxsM1_1Jw8RJb2XRcMcg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                           ` <1632680642.869711321@apps.rackspace.com>
     [not found]                             ` <CAHb6Lvp1dxnbuCNiE5FKC-yRyD6HGkb0H1ZQAm_nSxANwJg2pA@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                               ` <E3373586-EF4C-40DF-885B-0D6134E6EAF1@apple.com>
2021-10-26  4:24                                 ` [Codel] [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] TCP_NOTSENT_LOWAT applied to e2e TCP msg latency Eric Dumazet
     [not found]                                 ` <CAHb6Lvomc+2y++qOm9v3OzYCdmWDUEROJb+unybj0Mir0faXQQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                   ` <CAKf5G6JpeaxRkbwhuNE5zUb7tX3H4eo0HOuX+C0DCSrcg4Byhg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                     ` <CAHb6LvpUBKFGUTnuafGxQAJBfNEO=zS20SvxTJ88e6VJAP54=g@mail.gmail.com>
2021-10-27 14:29                                       ` [Codel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller

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