From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from dispatch1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (dispatch1-us1.ppe-hosted.com [148.163.129.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1ECC03B29D; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 19:55:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: Proofpoint Essentials engine Received: from mx1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (unknown [10.7.65.202]) by mx1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (PPE Hosted ESMTP Server) with ESMTPS id 34EEB1A006A; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:55:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail3.candelatech.com (mail2.candelatech.com [208.74.158.173]) by mx1-us1.ppe-hosted.com (PPE Hosted ESMTP Server) with ESMTP id 8029380066; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:55:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.254.6] (unknown [50.34.183.227]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail3.candelatech.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B66213C2B1; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:55:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mail3.candelatech.com 5B66213C2B1 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=candelatech.com; s=default; t=1627948505; bh=eW0nKmM+sftalpf58mlb1lWP1CNG+dGs0zu9aJsaYSU=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=mSX54r8GZOxJTJOIy9h2in3tIDr9yIcVCAwLLNsivUkMn8sDK4qAcOj/2PWmwiCNu zhPVrQ8bcYPpswMqedse77LivCPDDeDcFWCGnv7GY9q9K0mp9S0qjCp/vsj8h15gSH Bnh8oNcDs75N8GrdRGeJ1R1Ye3SK4bGwC9BGInco= To: David Lang , Bob McMahon Cc: Luca Muscariello , Cake List , Make-Wifi-fast , Leonard Kleinrock , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> From: Ben Greear Organization: Candela Technologies Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:55:03 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-MW Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDID: 1627948506-NKYOAo82XhfD Subject: Re: [Codel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board X-BeenThere: codel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: CoDel AQM discussions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 23:55:08 -0000 On 8/2/21 4:16 PM, David Lang wrote: > If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, you need to include the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF, not with wired networks and > are commonly overlooked > > 1. station A can hear station B and C but they cannot hear each other > 2. station A can hear station B but station B cannot hear station A 3. station A can hear that station B is transmitting, but not with a strong enough signal to > decode the signal (yes in theory you can work around interference, but in practice interference is still a real thing) > > David Lang > To add to this, I think you need lots of different station devices, different capabilities (/n, /ac, /ax, etc) different numbers of spatial streams, and different distances from the AP. From download queueing perspective, changing the capabilities may be sufficient while keeping all stations at same distance. This assumes you are not actually testing the wifi rate-ctrl alg. itself, so different throughput levels for different stations would be enough. So, a good station emulator setup (and/or pile of real stations) and a few RF chambers and programmable attenuators and you can test that setup... From upload perspective, I guess same setup would do the job. Queuing/fairness might depend a bit more on the station devices, emulated or otherwise, but I guess a clever AP could enforce fairness in upstream direction too by implementing per-sta queues. Thanks, Ben -- Ben Greear Candela Technologies Inc http://www.candelatech.com