Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104

[Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>]

> On Mar 16, 2019, at 10:42, Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> 
> Good question!  …. on Windows in particular, I’d really like to know this too.

	Well, as far as I can tell it is the group policy editor that is the tool to assign DSCPs to applications, IMHO that is exactly the right place, somewhere where the administrator/enduser can set her desired policy (personally I am fine with applications also using sensible defaults, as long as the user can override them all is well). The catch seems to be that group policies require a domain controller and are hence not available on stand-alond windows home installations. Anybody with deep contacts to microsoft here, that could try to get an sub-official standpoint from MS on the issue of opening the group policy editor up for everybody (at least the dscp marking part)?

Best Regards
	Sebastian


> 
> The WebRTC Javascript API allows one to influence the DSCP, i.e. browsers normally can do that. Whether that’s true for all OSes, I don’t know.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2019, at 12:45 AM, David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>> 
>> How many applications used by normal users have "admin" privileges? The Browser? Email? FTP?
>>  
>>  
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 4:31pm
>> To: "Jonathan Foulkes" <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com>
>> Cc: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net, "bloat" <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 1:28 PM Jonathan Foulkes <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > All this discussion of DSCP marking brings to mind what happened on the Windows platform, where the OS had to suppress ALL DSCP marks, as app authors were trying to game the system.
>> > And even if not trying to ‘game’ it, they have non-obvious reasons why they don’t mark traffic how one would expect. Example:
>> >
>> > I know an engineer who works at a cloud-storage solution company, and I asked why a long-standing customer request for DSCP marking (as bulk) was not implemented. His answer was they’d never do that, as that would impact benchmarks against their competitors for which service syncs faster. <sigh>
>> >
>> > Which brings me to a question: Is anyone aware of an easy to use Windows app that will allow the user to select an application and tell the OS to mark the traffic (all or by port) with a user selected DSCP level?
>> > There are many guides on using regedit and other error-prone (and geek-only) means of doing this, but is there a simple Windows 10 home app?
>> 
>> When I last tried it (years ago), in order to set the tos bits, an
>> application merely had to have admin privs.
>> 
>> > Now that Cake is out there with simple DiffServ3 support, it would be nice to lower the priority of cloud-storage services and other bulk traffic by correctly marking it at the origin.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Jonathan Foulkes
>> >
>> >
>> > > On Mar 15, 2019, at 3:32 PM, Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On 15 Mar, 2019, at 8:36 pm, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> Having a "lower-than-best-effort" diffserve codepoint might work, because it means worse treatment, not preferential treatment.
>> > >>
>> > >> The problem with having DSCP CPs that indicate preferential treatment is typically a ddos magnet.
>> > >
>> > > This is true, and also why I feel that just 2 bits should be sufficient for Diffserv (rather than 6). They are sufficient to express four different optimisation targets:
>> > >
>> > > 0: Maximum Throughput (aka Best Effort)
>> > > 1: Minimum Cost (aka Least Effort)
>> > > 2: Minimum Latency (aka Maximum Responsiveness)
>> > > 3: Minimum Loss (aka Maximum Reliability)
>> > >
>> > > It is legitimate for traffic to request any of these four optimisations, with the explicit tradeoff of *not* necessarily getting optimisation in the other three dimensions.
>> > >
>> > > The old TOS spec erred in specifying 4 non-exclusive bits to express this, in addition to 3 bits for a telegram-office style "priority level" (which was very much ripe for abuse if not strictly admission-controlled). TOS was rightly considered a mess, but was replaced with Diffserv which was far too loose a spec to be useful in practice.
>> > >
>> > > But that's a separate topic from ECN per se.
>> > >
>> > > - Jonathan Morton
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Bloat mailing list
>> > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Bloat mailing list
>> > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> Dave Täht
>> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
>> http://www.teklibre.com
>> Tel: 1-831-205-9740
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ecn-sane mailing list
>> Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane
>> _______________________________________________
>> Bloat mailing list
>> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Bloat mailing list
> Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat