From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <4bone@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA0193B2A4; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 17:58:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id xATMwUSP018463; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:58:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 4bone@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from 4bone@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id xATMwUuu018462; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:58:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from 4bone) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" <4bone@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Message-Id: <201911292258.xATMwUuu018462@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <201911292255.xATMt2vN018446@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> To: "Rodney W. Grimes" <4bone@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 14:58:30 -0800 (PST) CC: Dave Taht , ECN-Sane , bloat X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] sce materials from ietf X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 22:58:33 -0000 > > there are no minutes posted. > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-tsvwg-sessa-81-some-congestion-experienced-00 > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-tcpm-some-congestion-experienced-in-tcp-00 > > The above 2 decks are identical. Jonathan did not get any time > during tsvwg, so I reposted the whole deck to tcpm, in which I > also did not get any time to present. Correction, Jonathan did get 6 minutes, iirc. > > BUT, and that is a all caps BUT, good stuff happened for SCE > forward progress during the meetinhgs none the less. We did > infact get an announcement that we have asked for adoption of > draft-morton-tsvwg-sce, with a 25 hand count on who has read > the draft, which by my rough estimate was more than 1/4 of > the room. > > During the tcpm session the issues around allocation of bit 7 > for AccECN may of been worked out, that draft (AccECN) is becoming > a proposed standard, which can do the IANA allocation, and Mira > at least continues to affirm that bit 7 can be used for other > purposes after an AccECN negotiation failure when it falls back > to RFC3168 ECN, so we (SCE) believe we do have a path forward on > our alternate use for bit 7. > > The tsvwg chairs, and the work group itself now needs to discuss > the 2 experiment problem, the conflicts and compatibilities between > the 2, and just how to deal with the situation. > > YOUR (that being all the list members of ecn-sane, and the larger > bufferbloat community) inputs and helps are highly desired in > this process. > > The SCE teams possition is that L4S is fundementally flawed in > its use of the ECT(1) code point as a "Traffic Classifier" since > that leads to the end nodes telling the network the traffic is > special, aka treat me differently than any other traffic, and > is likely to lead to abuse, which may possibly lead to bleaching > of the code point, which would be bad for everyone. > > It would be much nicer to use this last code point, 1/2 a bit, > for a high fidelity signal from the network to the receiver > of the level of congestion in a fully backwards to RFC3168 > way. > > We (the SCE team) also feel that L4S is overly complex and continues > to grow complexity as problems with it are exposed. (Recently it > has become apparent that protecton from RFC3168 behavior is needed, > and thus a new proposal and a new chunk of code are being > developed to deal with this issue. > > > > Dave T?ht > -- > Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org > _______________________________________________ > Ecn-sane mailing list > Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane > > -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org