From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com (mail-pg1-x52e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37CEB3B29E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id f25so1520375pgv.10 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:33:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j5L3MetGTrWL3f/98CCqnPtP9ZklC+K4f1RLRMohB7I=; b=I5bjq/7HvCcqgSG8jI5kc0WmBayriu53vrrBCPA+di3TjLF6ODacJ13UzM9/13CVk5 kYrOTJDWAVYBfWLvTQonwa6Qdu2Q+9zOR70lI8s4TfCYMW6JZpuh9qUAxUbDyMg5CVf5 QY7EkjSkbx8c6PjyR1+3shYsGfjzqaiao+0Qn3iY8QJPl3mdDNj5y15lf2F168X0Oz/z 6jqqyTvYyGUrArSpRxXAeD445dB0y6ldUtFYbLTMrBcZ9o4YmEstJXZBy7NXSmz10rzH TAwfshSeL40aAvQ7/Gu/sHfy7Si1jzTEetamFDxuFRuV0DrnULiIZ8K6SpCFW7kkocWU DZHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=j5L3MetGTrWL3f/98CCqnPtP9ZklC+K4f1RLRMohB7I=; b=uc4cIkqUZUxwJ7GC1zIU3cDnZk12yvvpAYs42no/pVVmA73UjNaCnYFEwE5tw76vSC Ew/aNbt9el6lHBWGhEbGaI37cU4gzLurYqNZO/X1Tcihdauvrps28RPdYDbfdDUe28gM yWHoZ4kxpgHcdRrlYL+TEuPRVuOWYvMzbkUh58SIFqYvMvrLEd7DGriTE0SPcqKQgxeT FdoA9w6nZslCAm3KH8N7EpsufdWOlJIgfYd0xo8SFZAq5noFJCgLIixezAkUgpYYQhg8 Z5qy1vRgsMTG7VrqffPTZXe+77irHobWYLU7QldmzXovhtNJGRdibHp7O9PKRF6O+bkM whvA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWkOsL3ECumFVZebJjM2Kkn7/ZZEfmFrp6jLuJECuNrGq3YEMSW /kUtv/YWNG5oj7ZCyBC7eMA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwrXBRj1HrlCZ9m302Y1ViWmyf9YReHzSoAKj8U2exHE2gYHhKCVKMUyCQtxdzqPv+JXh65Eg== X-Received: by 2002:a63:2e46:: with SMTP id u67mr5500398pgu.259.1561667597326; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.30] (32.23.255.123.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [123.255.23.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q198sm5108394pfq.155.2019.06.27.13.33.14 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:33:16 -0700 (PDT) To: Sebastian Moeller , "David P. Reed" Cc: Jonathan Morton , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , tsvwg IETF list References: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net> <46D1ABD8-715D-44D2-B7A0-12FE2A9263FE@gmx.de> <835b1fb3-e8d5-c58c-e2f8-03d2b886af38@gmail.com> <1561233009.95886420@apps.rackspace.com> <71EF351D-AFBF-4C92-B6B9-7FD695B68815@gmail.com> <1561241377.4026977@apps.rackspace.com> <4E863FC5-D30E-4F76-BDF7-6A787958C628@gmx.de> <1561566706.778820831@apps.rackspace.com> <9A6E126A-43A3-4BD8-A3AC-507FF9095470@gmx.de> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: <2382048d-25de-df7e-f787-8ab0d606d3dc@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:33:13 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9A6E126A-43A3-4BD8-A3AC-507FF9095470@gmx.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:13:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] per-flow scheduling X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:33:18 -0000 On 27-Jun-19 19:49, Sebastian Moeller wrote: ... > a considerable fraction of home-users seem obsessed in maxing out their access links and compare achievable rates; whether such behaviour shoud be encouraged is a different question. I think this is encouraged by, or is even a direct result of, so called "speed tests" for use by consumers (such as https://www.speedtest.net/), and the way connectivity "speed" has been used as a marketing tool. At least where I live, "speed" is the main marketing tool for switching users to fibre instead of copper. No doubt it will be used as the main marketing tool for 5G too. It's almost as if those marketing people don't understand queueing theory. Brian