Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet
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From: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
To: "Holland, Jake" <jholland@akamai.com>
Cc: "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" <ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Subject: [Ecn-sane] per-flow scheduling
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 15:12:53 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net> (raw)

Jake, all,

You may not be aware of my long history of concern about how per-flow 
scheduling within endpoints and networks will limit the Internet in 
future. I find per-flow scheduling a violation of the e2e principle in 
such a profound way - the dynamic choice of the spacing between packets 
- that most people don't even associate it with the e2e principle.

I detected that you were talking about FQ in a way that might have 
assumed my concern with it was just about implementation complexity. If 
you (or anyone watching) is not aware of the architectural concerns with 
per-flow scheduling, I can enumerate them.

I originally started working on what became L4S to prove that it was 
possible to separate out reducing queuing delay from throughput 
scheduling. When Koen and I started working together on this, we 
discovered we had identical concerns on this.



Bob


-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/


             reply	other threads:[~2019-06-19 14:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-06-19 14:12 Bob Briscoe [this message]
2019-06-19 14:20 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Kyle Rose
2019-06-21  6:59 ` [Ecn-sane] " Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-21  9:33   ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-21 20:37     ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-22 19:50       ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 20:47         ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-22 22:03           ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-22 22:09           ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 23:07             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-24 18:57               ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 19:31                 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-24 19:50                   ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 20:14                     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-25 21:05                       ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 21:25                   ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-26 12:48             ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-26 16:31               ` David P. Reed
2019-06-26 16:53                 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-27  7:54                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-27  7:49                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-27 20:33                   ` Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-27 21:31                     ` David P. Reed
2019-06-28  7:49                       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-06-27  7:53                 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2019-06-22 21:10         ` Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-22 22:25           ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 22:30             ` Luca Muscariello
2019-07-17 21:33 ` [Ecn-sane] " Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-17 22:18   ` David P. Reed
2019-07-17 22:34     ` David P. Reed
2019-07-17 23:23       ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18  0:20         ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18  5:30           ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-18 15:02         ` David P. Reed
2019-07-18 16:06           ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18  4:31     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-18 15:52       ` David P. Reed
2019-07-18 18:12         ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Dave Taht
2019-07-18  5:24     ` [Ecn-sane] " Jonathan Morton
2019-07-22 13:44       ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-23  5:00         ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-23 11:35           ` [Ecn-sane] CNQ cheap-nasty-queuing (was per-flow queuing) Luca Muscariello
2019-07-23 20:14           ` [Ecn-sane] per-flow scheduling Bob Briscoe
2019-07-23 22:24             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-23 15:12         ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Kyle Rose
2019-07-25 19:25           ` Holland, Jake
2019-07-27 15:35             ` Kyle Rose
2019-07-27 19:42               ` Jonathan Morton

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