From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE1333CB3B for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 00:31:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id d24so25852264ljg.8 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:31:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wqXYrpXRimZKY4/HFvEA0ewHK4uNe24cYBGzFi9KW98=; b=NQ1lWdvrrYoOVO/IKWUMhkDDdin/DZ6qK4Q6/RCiLoHOyifkLWRVzd2m5B55DIgORW lBLB7fNEt0JqesxtVCPKsM8shvn8jSf2TeDmSM3OpLvHbBIjGLYtNZ1lDXPes8Dy4G0K ty1vz07Xu1LnexgJS0V3sthJ9Mb6gQd2H8vNDNNsbJ9x3ha3UzqYoYg7m3+71lZQ6noB puvsVP1toV3fofi75uAvr1tbwZRmE8wXvI0Ax6aJPO9qvKQbpSqsvbeBlPKqMkzVkpfz TtMwCHFxsA29us/5yPiI0PwNzN+pp+x87uXrDrQlDcSmC0OunjC+LH9fi8lu5XERuy3n RZQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wqXYrpXRimZKY4/HFvEA0ewHK4uNe24cYBGzFi9KW98=; b=EHFkgiAbIfCkZtS6GuPa4ULuGRBZHqLdEpB/d7BrB3L7JG1iyHQMYSOvgiHhggPE5L 2MBMpl3jwBUpFb2ULVh/949VUW92LYuhXa6qU41U6k2CWwyNS96ek0QgSRSAZH5KgOBN ndseS9C7536TTQrAJh/kspA0po8uIZyfTtCoGw91DO0MNhU6IqayuDChW3P7lDt0bpKi 5xj2iuiS6Iy8jJP1LS7N4X6G8QSJNk5r7CkdcFQt2y5zS8c75WsYEarcbby9Gt+n0M5M 5QwTsBXrMvYbniZuaZxlO6Zs7PfH18oMpozGIFhxrjc4NgYHG6CyTHlQ/4MSG+O5HPiO w1/g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAW1Cl9BoH/SpwMF8aUDTgXXYUoCo3WYiTwSmqnHILmDyH8QAIr4 dgOoNrgl7lMmkCI2tInkXg8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwLR1TsBtbctxyn65wOP0ldXiGJGlzBFA4XfucUuURiDPx+mTsll9QB1Ti8N4/vNeMUhjlJzw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5b5b:: with SMTP id p88mr21928894ljb.192.1563424267886; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:31:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.44.148] (37-219-185-236.nat.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.219.185.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v12sm4844859ljk.22.2019.07.17.21.31.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:31:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1563401917.00951412@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 07:31:02 +0300 Cc: Sebastian Moeller , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , Bob Briscoe , tsvwg IETF list Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <368B308A-C17C-42C6-AA37-F48DF6BC06AA@gmail.com> References: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net> <40605F1F-A6F5-4402-9944-238F92926EA6@gmx.de> <1563401917.00951412@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] per-flow scheduling X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 04:31:09 -0000 > On 18 Jul, 2019, at 1:18 am, David P. Reed = wrote: >=20 > So what are we talking about here (ignoring the fine points of SCE, = some of which I think are debatable - especially the focus on TCP alone, = since much traffic will likely move away from TCP in the near future. As a point of order, SCE is not specific to TCP. TCP is merely the most = convenient congestion-aware protocol to experiment with, and therefore = the one we have adapted first. Other protocols which already are (or = aspire to be) TCP friendly, especially QUIC, should also be = straightforward to adapt to SCE. I should also note that TCP is the de-facto gold standard, by which all = other congestion control is measured, for better or worse. SCE is = included in this, insofar as competing reasonably with standard TCP = flows under all reasonable network conditions is necessary to introduce = a new congestion control paradigm. This, I think, is also part of the = end-to-end principle. - Jonathan Morton=