From: Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de>
To: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
Cc: "Holland, Jake" <jholland@akamai.com>,
"ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" <ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] per-flow scheduling
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 23:33:17 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <40605F1F-A6F5-4402-9944-238F92926EA6@gmx.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net>
Dear Bob, dear IETF team,
> On Jun 19, 2019, at 16:12, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net> wrote:
>
> Jake, all,
>
> You may not be aware of my long history of concern about how per-flow scheduling within endpoints and networks will limit the Internet in future. I find per-flow scheduling a violation of the e2e principle in such a profound way - the dynamic choice of the spacing between packets - that most people don't even associate it with the e2e principle.
This does not rhyme well with the L4S stated advantage of allowing packet reordering (due to mandating RACK for all L4S tcp endpoints). Because surely changing the order of packets messes up the "the dynamic choice of the spacing between packets" in a significant way. IMHO it is either L4S is great because it will give intermediate hops more leeway to re-order packets, or "a sender's packet spacing" is sacred, please make up your mind which it is.
>
> I detected that you were talking about FQ in a way that might have assumed my concern with it was just about implementation complexity. If you (or anyone watching) is not aware of the architectural concerns with per-flow scheduling, I can enumerate them.
Please do not hesitate to do so after your deserved holiday, and please state a superior alternative.
Best Regards
Sebastian
>
> I originally started working on what became L4S to prove that it was possible to separate out reducing queuing delay from throughput scheduling. When Koen and I started working together on this, we discovered we had identical concerns on this.
>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
> --
> ________________________________________________________________
> Bob Briscoe http://bobbriscoe.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ecn-sane mailing list
> Ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/ecn-sane
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2019-07-17 21:34 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2019-06-19 14:12 Bob Briscoe
2019-06-19 14:20 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Kyle Rose
2019-06-21 6:59 ` [Ecn-sane] " Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-21 9:33 ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-21 20:37 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-22 19:50 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 20:47 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-22 22:03 ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-22 22:09 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 23:07 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-24 18:57 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 19:31 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-24 19:50 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 20:14 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-25 21:05 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 21:25 ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-26 12:48 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-26 16:31 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-26 16:53 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-27 7:54 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-27 7:49 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-27 20:33 ` Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-27 21:31 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-28 7:49 ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2019-06-27 7:53 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2019-06-22 21:10 ` Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-22 22:25 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 22:30 ` Luca Muscariello
2019-07-17 21:33 ` Sebastian Moeller [this message]
2019-07-17 22:18 ` [Ecn-sane] " David P. Reed
2019-07-17 22:34 ` David P. Reed
2019-07-17 23:23 ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18 0:20 ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18 5:30 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-18 15:02 ` David P. Reed
2019-07-18 16:06 ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18 4:31 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-18 15:52 ` David P. Reed
2019-07-18 18:12 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Dave Taht
2019-07-18 5:24 ` [Ecn-sane] " Jonathan Morton
2019-07-22 13:44 ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-23 5:00 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-23 11:35 ` [Ecn-sane] CNQ cheap-nasty-queuing (was per-flow queuing) Luca Muscariello
2019-07-23 20:14 ` [Ecn-sane] per-flow scheduling Bob Briscoe
2019-07-23 22:24 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-23 15:12 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Kyle Rose
2019-07-25 19:25 ` Holland, Jake
2019-07-27 15:35 ` Kyle Rose
2019-07-27 19:42 ` Jonathan Morton
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