From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECEAA3CB36; Wed, 20 Mar 2019 19:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id y6so3757910ljd.12; Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:28:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=2bx69UzLoWGWnUDycBr4unE69tQx5zImkgdewj+OsUM=; b=nqbO/cYaRlYK2UjeURtgdfIw7/Oo8hXMPcVtsXPFsKQaOGtieVL5P+j4CBoyujIUVU ocIRZ8YZb8HuQDYVVwxLUM+HxQZV3RGZtqlO3no3wrC2mZGUD0w6jpA294m9WcCPUSlp ejEqzrJaB28HjFHA0Bnh+E1hpszAh2/IgENh24mP4NEVDV+hLxWxQjelJ5WXd5CF/I2i sCD7Cgmy5UF1j9gUGQb+4CT4oFO9zOCdBU5k7QGz2gGOTPv9+0a46BkuAk7o2TeXZ1MU NGfycoCQQmO1u3y8i87Omsg4Ks7qoFn5imhEE03qF0a0G0zWDrQiCYuZHBrfO6JC7pfD Je2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=2bx69UzLoWGWnUDycBr4unE69tQx5zImkgdewj+OsUM=; b=aPAM9jOIV1ta/N9e4jECx3lAPAl6Nk2nc8hzxLjnUW9AYbmWERdBknqj7kNTpHMlfd 5KuL7gi/KURDzsUJkivHbSbOvxwdnqwbVHNbkXmIYgxTXKnU3+6UzCaEL74Eu/Rbvt+q aSWewAswzGoVU0urlowFZXuVn43PsSktYvFFVSGwA13xhKa3yagMDGdfSELr88+ufkp+ ELLgwFoHVGudrmH+JQGJ4JQbk2yHsAGd8D3konc/lHkd7/ldwA8J1/UwjOldkThFuotg ssz8GnYYqWZGoMeiEn9g5UvuT0yatjaO+ab4KTUZHXvqiScUvsnKtv8qDhm+5Pm9pgrT uT4A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWHNa6ViD184sarPOq3faKwVqGcJ+Tsbioc7YVWiJWvV90BxmfH o740liXmr3Pzw5M+IDE4HLM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqySrnSCKHGDSy2p+s3cugGfdzdaBwHmpH9aLJpAL4DEx91qFaVoBAYhVW2xLoZkNa5BfyyAYw== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:711a:: with SMTP id m26mr351486ljc.40.1553124490755; Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-226-9-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.226.9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m19sm613268lfb.78.2019.03.20.16.28.09 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Mar 2019 16:28:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <5AAAE942-12C9-4D5F-B04A-36A4A61C3501@akamai.com> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2019 01:28:09 +0200 Cc: Sebastian Moeller , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <49EAFC16-1DD0-48B0-AF6E-19DD3EB45CAA@gmail.com> References: <1E80578D-A589-4CA0-9015-B03B63042355@gmx.de> <27FA673A-2C4C-4652-943F-33FAA1CF1E83@gmx.de> <1552669283.555112988@apps.rackspace.com> <7029DA80-8B83-4775-8261-A4ADD2CF34C7@akamai.com> <1552846034.909628287@apps.rackspace.com> <5458c216-07b9-5b06-a381-326de49b53e0@bobbriscoe.net> <5C9296E1.4010703@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <06379263-6C0E-4EC1-9537-DE4C5F61846C@gmail.com> <5AAAE942-12C9-4D5F-B04A-36A4A61C3501@akamai.com> To: "Holland, Jake" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] [tsvwg] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104 X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2019 23:28:12 -0000 > On 21 Mar, 2019, at 1:11 am, Holland, Jake = wrote: >=20 > I think it's a fair point that even as close as the non-home side > of the access network, fq would need a lot of queues, and if you > want something in hardware it's going to be tricky. I hear > they're up to an average of ~6k homes per OLT. I think most of us would be relieved if competent single-queue AQMs = became ubiquitous. It doesn't have to be Cake everywhere, just = *something* unambiguously better than a dumb FIFO - and that's a rather = low bar to clear. Now, when you have a 6000-channel router, I expect it starts with some = very simple and fast device to direct packets in *approximately* the = right direction, where some other piece of hardware deals with some = subset of the total port count. Let's say you have a 1Gbps+ link to a = 64-line cluster. Immediately the problem of providing FQ on each of = those lines is more tractable; you can give each one 1024 queues and = AQMs, the same as fq_codel, for a quite manageable total of 65536, and = it's not so hard to build hardware that can keep up with 1Gbps traffic = these days. - Jonathan Morton