From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com (mail-qt1-x82a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B0063B2A4 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:24:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id w17so39971483qto.10 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:24:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=7lByWU3JgKWWFS6JBnsYjnMVnw/lfJQIA50HtwteBog=; b=cznoz9PvKfv2NY+/aq3cvTnex9yjUQRx9x97G+HS1A59faXoIUetmEJlGOwMoVrngj /YeNwOztJv/cVSbgs7qp8ICKTL/sLgYk/s4sS1UMESP+P5s73syKGMR4RPULlCcaGjOx me2Eg9stxJNlK26YJQHlRGqRx63Uh9qYJRDrS55hUGCvZ7d4lRjGXkR8K4205e+B98Qr ShuatS4STYLdW0qz9oTrduCjGV/pYh1cweh405HrhaFiu9EhnZPo9FEMRHkBQkEan5Xt d9Y7ASBWiRpzLzkOrLqJQQmn7Ip7B3PTr4FbhEj04tgFmcjtI9ckm2AJtSVoCN4PA0o/ WMCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=7lByWU3JgKWWFS6JBnsYjnMVnw/lfJQIA50HtwteBog=; b=p92TSStb8IXf3EbSN1ASLYz/gqtUR3Ve0dw/lE8+xm7Da7duE+9FRx0/nDDa3/zRzh XXkmnNvZjQ08jlgD2va0NsFGvlNMJXIsYhRR9HHJXjoHX+29RnLVqW+9+R9MryD1mX1V uXyQ8ev7SVJTIo0+hH1ut++/RsZqMTaLpxoKC0llnMpjEaaa7hYyFxyXqJbqASrvHOT/ GRRP1QTzoq9YG5N19FpRvGMIYoR4pGlQ/SJr5+syCNmmXDWDGXI1yCazC7lUONFaNip1 YAnqwzdhJn624dccDRS8J1S8RyliTESx/qDt/iOXsDzB/UjJN91N4Ajjpn72LcXMMEPv vO+g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUOlPUNFc3ukfy8IqgBk4nl/vnEqDOKFtuu9TmPD/LWuYWlY+5U ZW86BiXf424ddpuzs9gSwEuKafQe X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwHsuQL9IdyacgZv8LPTRTqMehiMuAMZBVHUHRIDC65ek2EbcM2BDLueDcmwvekwc+u7wrhrQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:b998:: with SMTP id v24mr52581526qvf.132.1563834243730; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (173-246-8-242.qc.cable.ebox.net. [173.246.8.242]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b202sm18694226qkg.83.2019.07.22.15.24.03 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:24:03 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <63F4DD93-21EF-41D5-ABCB-9982D6ACB7D9@evenroute.com> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:24:02 -0400 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , Dave Taht , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <62919F35-8ACD-4C81-A6F2-F907E56F0087@gmail.com> References: <63F4DD93-21EF-41D5-ABCB-9982D6ACB7D9@evenroute.com> To: Jonathan Foulkes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] is FQ actually widely deployed? X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:24:04 -0000 > On 22 Jul, 2019, at 6:14 pm, Jonathan Foulkes = wrote: >=20 >> The IQrouter is probably the best example of a commercial middlebox = that does FQ, in this case using Cake. I hear that it is now being sold = in re-branded form to certain large ISPs, but I could be wrong about = that. I've CC'd Jonathan Foulkes for comment. >=20 > I wish I could get some =E2=80=98large ISPs=E2=80=99 to pay attention, = as they have some of the worst issues. But our ISP base is mostly = smaller, rural ISPs with the usual challenges using legacy copper or = older DOCSIS deployments. But I have also seen benefits on many a = higher-capacity, modern infrastructure. Not sure how they allow bloat on = some of the setups, but they do, and a CPE with a decent AQM (like Cake) = makes a measurable difference. >=20 > Since this is also going to the ecn-sane list, let me say that having = an AQM that is ECN-aware (like Cake with the ECN flags enabled) is major = win for user-experience, as when combined with modern OSs that respect = ECN, the immediate reaction to the congestion signaling is wonderful. = Also nice that tests like the DSLreports.com speedtest, who grade = packet-loss (the usual congestion signaling) as =E2=80=98Quality=E2=80=99 = now consistently grade lines as an A in that metric with ECN signaling.=20= Indeed, I brought my IQrouter along to Montreal, so Pete, Rodney and I = are using it in our AirBNB as a substitute for the rather decrepit = D-Link router we found already installed. The latter was using 2.4GHz = only with 40MHz channels, in a dense urban area, with predictable = effect. The ISP appears to be Comcast=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=A6and the IQrouter works very well, even though I haven't = bothered changing it from the 10M/4M settings I use at home. - Jonathan Morton