From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com (mail-lj1-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0DBB3B2A4; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 16:20:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id k8so22740340ljh.5; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=4t63usuPmdylTclUXxEqXNLx4QOasR8PbxfumA83NXI=; b=lLzYafxiMGs++FaKgbHvHsIxCm3YuS/wl11f/KcM8m6MjU3DM3tSnYuqYXvdr7mtLS lKuh1CB4i2I8owPavytyUG35G+iRd03L/a/V5OJY0fzwrZvRWdwNIvmIoyQtKOwklRdg hD1ND0U2pa3oAQfWGfuEooao5w1b3t7jpe9xNUnVed0newhpo5CvOJGSUK8iNSuAoF/y qD59TQcWd/vd9RFmRS16FJ86hABLKFhQG4whZ5vaX4iw6+VRxSvDq0uf/VbKNOh+3nPG 6OMjT/DLgxPMa/wx7CneH/++Fhii2Aaj8wbrrxvFkuBpzRqU/osjTCv5zIg9Zz2YAtGc oyfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=4t63usuPmdylTclUXxEqXNLx4QOasR8PbxfumA83NXI=; b=hK/OJUv/x10j0s/Ef+IX93514+pAWcPj+xRplrZk12MNYpLprbTdM1i80qmmTVwoxE Iz4augnRKoUlyE2QxBKP5XQDkkFeOOAWYMrON0/DPQRyAvcmQU7+uRuoMc7Vcrcubo+n H6L2W/1zfLBTDahW2Z/BP8kx+6Cqc43wCj3a1BtcLnhOe1g4cKe+7J8PX7B64McEUGjN totDiVcTLWjUHrUNV8jbX9nqtS6CsjTIwrgd0mMd206am5oAyGTLYjywAI2HzhxlEmZp nNapkl/Hd4vrPGnaB8hcWHHiQ1u98U4Fib0o7mN2fkFD5L0FUweTeMzq/nMtjx+rfO4+ cgAA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX07A+e2jFIm52st/CWpnVU998VxVp9z7/QsuUsLKy2jqhZf0Tk 5V8+REDefkug3goepnxEPnE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyJwJGGUlTO5YCLFDP4XC7mMBUKBXveybc1w9opXqCSGLZrTMABRAmyqGsMtAlh+yyIQTxZKg== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:84d0:: with SMTP id q16mr28261528ljh.48.1575062458833; Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-229-102-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.229.102]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n19sm10569402lfl.85.2019.11.29.13.20.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Nov 2019 13:20:58 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 23:20:56 +0200 Cc: ECN-Sane , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <63E9C0E4-C913-4B2F-8AFC-64E12489BC65@gmail.com> References: To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] sce materials from ietf X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 21:21:00 -0000 > On 29 Nov, 2019, at 10:08 pm, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > there are no minutes posted. >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-tsvwg-sessa-= 81-some-congestion-experienced-00 >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/106/materials/slides-106-tcpm-some-co= ngestion-experienced-in-tcp-00 Those should both be the same slide deck. We got squeezed out of over = half our expected talk time in TSVWG, and didn't get to present at all = in TCPM (though we were able to comment from the floor on related AccECN = matters) - we were just expecting to focus on one or two slides from the = deck there. I think we got two big takeaways from IETF-106: First, that L4S is really floundering in their fundamental problems and = has not yet been able to demonstrate any genuine solutions to them, and = instead they're trying to bog us down in process. However, there is = growing interest in SCE, despite the relatively small footprint we still = have officially. Second, I gained a couple of key insights that I think will help to = solve SCE's remaining shortcomings. If we can apply them successfully = by Vancouver, we'll be able to stand up and say not only that SCE meets = *all* of the Prague Requirements, while L4S is currently missing two of = them, but that we've also solved the single-queue problem. I'm = deliberately leaving the technical details vague until we've done some = testing, but I will say that the name we've come up with is amusing. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to fix a computer=E2=80=A6 - Jonathan Morton