From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp68.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (smtp68.iad3b.emailsrvr.com [146.20.161.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E5083B2A4 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:14:19 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=g001.emailsrvr.com; s=20190322-9u7zjiwi; t=1563833659; bh=ewY+hhXyMiT3baG6wAg9Nl+az/MdXAbBe4a7GlHQ4Lg=; h=Subject:From:Date:To:From; b=Q38PjXJ0lfkcIbVH7HY3Hg0dLvhiQWx0ntuJm7q0ZxD05QeF7pPFlgipFQ60oDYqA QdbtyYmlSVnG9qa10M9jFilTPFlJkxb5RWp5A2kcovnbRyRwmcv/o20U6EBd0gt2Ka 4iJ2xoOE3O1YRpkU1/0lSNVvvppmtXKLMvBj99lM= X-Auth-ID: jfoulkes@evenroute.com Received: by smtp9.relay.iad3b.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: jfoulkes-AT-evenroute.com) with ESMTPSA id EA12F201ED; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:14:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: jfoulkes@evenroute.com Received: from jonathans-mbp-2.lan (h22.210.20.98.static.ip.windstream.net [98.20.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.7.12); Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:14:19 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Jonathan Foulkes In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:14:16 -0400 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , Dave Taht , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <63F4DD93-21EF-41D5-ABCB-9982D6ACB7D9@evenroute.com> References: To: Jonathan Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:28:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] is FQ actually widely deployed? X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:14:19 -0000 > The IQrouter is probably the best example of a commercial middlebox = that does FQ, in this case using Cake. I hear that it is now being sold = in re-branded form to certain large ISPs, but I could be wrong about = that. I've CC'd Jonathan Foulkes for comment. I wish I could get some =E2=80=98large ISPs=E2=80=99 to pay attention, = as they have some of the worst issues. But our ISP base is mostly = smaller, rural ISPs with the usual challenges using legacy copper or = older DOCSIS deployments. But I have also seen benefits on many a = higher-capacity, modern infrastructure. Not sure how they allow bloat on = some of the setups, but they do, and a CPE with a decent AQM (like Cake) = makes a measurable difference. Since this is also going to the ecn-sane list, let me say that having an = AQM that is ECN-aware (like Cake with the ECN flags enabled) is major = win for user-experience, as when combined with modern OSs that respect = ECN, the immediate reaction to the congestion signaling is wonderful. = Also nice that tests like the DSLreports.com speedtest, who grade = packet-loss (the usual congestion signaling) as =E2=80=98Quality=E2=80=99 = now consistently grade lines as an A in that metric with ECN signaling.=20= Regards, Jonathan Foulkes CEO - Evenroute.com > On Jul 22, 2019, at 11:20 AM, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >=20 >> On 22 Jul, 2019, at 10:14 am, Mikael Abrahamsson = wrote: >>=20 >> Do we have numbers on how much FQ is actually out there? If we don't, = can we measure it? Anyone know of devices shipping or being designed = that does FQ of some kind? >=20 > Linux and OSX end hosts now routinely run fq_codel by default. That's = an awfully large installed base, both of FQ and of Codel. It is perhaps = worth observing that these are rarely bottlenecks for Internet paths, = though they might be for LAN paths. >=20 > The IQrouter is probably the best example of a commercial middlebox = that does FQ, in this case using Cake. I hear that it is now being sold = in re-branded form to certain large ISPs, but I could be wrong about = that. I've CC'd Jonathan Foulkes for comment. >=20 > There's also a large French ISP which has done fq_codel on its last = mile for quite some time. >=20 > - Jonathan Morton