From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E57FC3BA8E; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 16:13:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id v22so3228612lje.9; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:13:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CsJp2KpR2oHco6yWj1rodhzsr3TTFZ/ox3kegfl5V9o=; b=PcncHEFatUesbUUmnAr9zNBFfs9kM4BzqWCCER5KGVwFE4PGyaYf1rg/eb9+8uORG/ a2bCFwqpUFeZcVZHBY73+dbHCVbU4ejYKjZVPimdU4JJ0KE8vB8B6mv4JwmgPTN3q7Mk 1f6iu1UMiib5BtbQD7lVreIEVqXA9/U8w5SWmhJMAkQTnBKP4pNbOXBqB4tG6oYVlghR E+YE2xxL3jQ2FLCpHKGbU2TIUbhSeaLoE/nM0luZjt/jVS3ze4q584lph6uRa2ig3kMa 4MxdRpi2sST334M52v75Nx956Dxf/4C/2CrqbyuhrSEvf3hbfMpRXttFUZ7oIzpKH3fG SyzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=CsJp2KpR2oHco6yWj1rodhzsr3TTFZ/ox3kegfl5V9o=; b=LlRmX5eGOtMk3PuZjSQx5U+8y7tRUdYXzRkTs2Ryp6dRHk6vo4NssKZo+YOdD6z2bS 8+y+OboJAECAWZLvUXnESIXAl628uxCTcY8FfK4EMaxP/hoiKzGb2stsSgB/w1qMN8E8 hyUFodZgqzH/Imp2jEZ5mZA22HEai9pURqzTlM4bxpMRLJ0/+L34dR3GegXFCEgGOv06 Hlbc4N7Pyh53qPjAX/+Z5ZK+RfgADD0W/OiIYzmi5xywd8EynbO+yT+fXdVpdJNwx52Y rVvVatazw+HPny4rUYrXtOT/DLgJYEvCratiYHVB7BtevGKFZgLnNxbBVjVG/0NINuV/ 1mpA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVZXXU4GGvZDFViSp8C3foPSSS+8rq5uP1lAQIqA3yakYzjKBqc GoEtDObVeDhXitsn1UKdLrA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwyV1SADSDxQDWY3DvXXwEd4YOcNVQBLYyrNoCmZy/rkUnSULS9SXoni88dfGIpVCEpseuqIQ== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:86ce:: with SMTP id n14mr3249685ljj.40.1552680823821; Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-235-46-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.235.46]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m19sm597256lfb.78.2019.03.15.13.13.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1552679055.131328669@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 22:13:41 +0200 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net, bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6A1F5DC5-F4D8-4C40-B4F6-1F03368F8219@gmail.com> References: <1E80578D-A589-4CA0-9015-B03B63042355@gmx.de> <27FA673A-2C4C-4652-943F-33FAA1CF1E83@gmx.de> <1552669283.555112988@apps.rackspace.com> <7412ADED-D1F3-4C15-9703-0977E087013B@gmail.com> <1552679055.131328669@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104 X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2019 20:13:45 -0000 > On 15 Mar, 2019, at 9:44 pm, David P. Reed = wrote: >=20 > pricing (even dynamic pricing) of different qualities of service is = unstable An interesting result, but I should note that the four-way optimisation = system I described doesn't rely on pricing, only a sufficiently correct = implementation of those optimisations at enough bottlenecks to make it = worthwhile for applications to mark their traffic appropriately. The = technology exists to do so, but is not standardised in a way that makes = it usable. - Jonathan Morton