From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346BC3B29E for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 15:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id 136so10896397lfa.8 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:32:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=W2JuIb3iQf72zbIbwFpXnv18U4FdO9fvxVVkLiyUpGY=; b=Ot8/0EPlrWwL1QbvH+o4RvS/ccqiENB5u5LYw0c/Tl6JttGgiXbAOSxn/DjqE6SLS+ YEkumaXt3tGommKGusA0zfLG1dx21ONBzQFALiYdYqHWCPHVRtvI1oPRfz7f6s6C1nGq aoIO06ETkhDjzRkO5QCeKW8X9iRe78ogxwTuWraOyP7s8XUpZBzvx0ElcUzzVR5ZsQ0T 3O3mA507isWs0NKpQE0WkDchiMKd0fTenJKucg3voBghyUK8jKW/y9aDCAIOMd3wtOP9 PmFgEfkpqzHkznEnpn7TqpIbpLasKxAiuOQCpqfqQAnlwQyZk41BoT7AK6fF1NcBCImF UKLA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=W2JuIb3iQf72zbIbwFpXnv18U4FdO9fvxVVkLiyUpGY=; b=uDhPXTuc/i8Pdhs/u+7ow1/q7Nev4zqw6nIK2T+YnfPhcRXenAEPFW/OsxMdhBd47E 58GldFdX2D9tAusOHomh1xhYtCpbVmbEXGuLVf2C6Pw+5NaJF3I3K4F6fYTO+TR4TM9l lxvY8GaDUnzdY6nF+/CtU6brZpwpE0HMopoAYWkLijGCWUpR1H6Z2RKo1B4DfaowTOua YyRCMFN+/zlBVCqWLai2+PP1nhGBj1YGpnjY8KQ4w+V+ombgtC1vUNTfZWwPX00NuLjG 8LaeTTuX9qCmIld4LddbeSimXSeCD9GYDmQaz7VYL1R+JdQK6dqsGIyb0n2ghCYMsDdr QeZA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUI7/56w34RWwEa9GiWYAuh5E1BcNSu+WhHof20bTGEQt8PoMN/ AsTX23gOUmjL6pwpX/SWShU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzCOUOqQmeN08uQmjBRwDCC4b7AoIUzj/eSMd2cse0HbXVxy5RNAMhdJtUKMmHVcOknoNEiqw== X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5a01:: with SMTP id q1mr63641176lfn.46.1561404731117; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-234-188-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.234.188]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x67sm1861707ljb.13.2019.06.24.12.32.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 24 Jun 2019 12:32:10 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 (Normal) In-Reply-To: <1561402678.523819778@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 22:31:56 +0300 Cc: Brian E Carpenter , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , tsvwg IETF list Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7F847464-70DD-4F9F-8CA5-DD3C8B65689C@gmail.com> References: <350f8dd5-65d4-d2f3-4d65-784c0379f58c@bobbriscoe.net> <46D1ABD8-715D-44D2-B7A0-12FE2A9263FE@gmx.de> <835b1fb3-e8d5-c58c-e2f8-03d2b886af38@gmail.com> <1561233009.95886420@apps.rackspace.com> <71EF351D-AFBF-4C92-B6B9-7FD695B68815@gmail.com> <1561241377.4026977@apps.rackspace.com> <081BAF4F-2E1C-441B-A31A-9AC70E3EDA32@gmail.com> <1561402678.523819778@apps.rackspace.com> To: "David P. Reed" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] per-flow scheduling X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:32:12 -0000 > On 24 Jun, 2019, at 9:57 pm, David P. Reed = wrote: >=20 > TCP doesn't have a "natural sawtooth" - that is the response of TCP to = a particular "queueing discipline" in a particular kind of a router - it = would respond differently (and does!) if the router were to drop packets = randomly on a Poisson basis, for example. No sawtooth at all. I challenge you to show me a Reno or CUBIC based connection's cwnd = evolution that *doesn't* resemble a sawtooth, regardless of the = congestion signalling employed. And I will show you that it either has = severe underutilisation of the link, or is using SCE signals. The = sawtooth is characteristic of the AIMD congestion control algorithm. - Jonathan Morton=