From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x82a.google.com (mail-qt1-x82a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FE0D3CB38 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:44:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x82a.google.com with SMTP id z4so32480754qtc.3 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:44:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nejsS9iXNi6Pai+Rg2blswNX+Q8aDQIEXAiYvgc2bZ4=; b=TMSckJ45ZQGKiuEvJSJ4etAKYfowGDY2O3VlMfqkOhUgM5A0jFep575D96oJtiuN5K AfT83OlAgVFOJHCIeqiA+U5CY5eqqNzNdpkqAcK3EpS4BJ3wxm3fcWVriePZQQ/1nlky res3AeqXsYRlafuVB1Tf/7nkFWuiVqzETk52Y9om+Ks4DK9Y+WxH7fxWhXtz6gtUWTAk ZfW8uWBV1bL3pcYM4ShkBlTftlUCpKeUSx2PcaWLJnmCD2kLvKlktrinfKg7OzjN+jCp eeQ+fwuYOzSfYrQ0SRQrUoDxsnSGTmNfIzucckejEs7XwepA1R0bDeLiccMg2NjI75mL +LaA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=nejsS9iXNi6Pai+Rg2blswNX+Q8aDQIEXAiYvgc2bZ4=; b=TQMnT7+W4hnqlV6hj6Ef62hcCcg3A5ShgJN4qVMpe1iKjqFoAcn4J+lG4YQUckyvlv klZ+bvJCFo+G3xq80qmk8zIheIyLKkxn5AA7MPSHiB1+8BS2l51ceK2S8Y4ZreOcqAHX WoTIozskt5c8mkG4lqalUFe1jYIgrF76QwT8G/4AjE50CacC7FilE8BUeJaYyPch0eCk 8GMtcvRJqSKqR6vz6w7yTETkQty5Furgn5I27AZzScMDOHFqYr7rgD8RLNw24f4Kf8R3 D61Z33gWo9MPxXQqAAEpoDlxql0bpafZaUU5RJeJUhA/ir7wX5WWEVXCnQB5tRr31cUi kvRQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVjBALHcrg2fKJ4XTbGPqp2K6KAhN2uL8iwRH71Do/ECm1CQSEW NNGfPfiIHgMalw7sFshq5LU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxvqzkZ863yIy7uAipDL6ZWs2NObkmVABAbTqqPl/2dYyEpivWCqPQr/+aa3SV2KXgwN+eAEA== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:124c:: with SMTP id g12mr36741787qtj.57.1563569079868; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (173-246-8-242.qc.cable.ebox.net. [173.246.8.242]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v75sm15970340qka.38.2019.07.19.13.44.38 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 19 Jul 2019 13:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 16:44:37 -0400 Cc: Wesley Eddy , Dave Taht , "De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <803D9CA8-220E-4F98-9B8E-6CE2916C3100@gmail.com> References: <364514D5-07F2-4388-A2CD-35ED1AE38405@akamai.com> <4aff6353-eb0d-b0b8-942d-9c92753f074e@bobbriscoe.net> <1238A446-6E05-4A55-8B3B-878C8F39FC75@gmail.com> <17B33B39-D25A-432C-9037-3A4835CCC0E1@gmail.com> <52F85CFC-B7CF-4C7A-88B8-AE0879B3CCFE@gmail.com> <87ef2myqzv.fsf@taht.net> To: "Black, David" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] Comments on L4S drafts X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 20:44:40 -0000 > On 19 Jul, 2019, at 4:06 pm, Black, David = wrote: >=20 > To be clear on what I have in mind: > o Unacceptable: All traffic marked with ECT(1) goes into the L4S = queue, independent of what DSCP it is marked with. > o Acceptable: There's an operator-configurable list of DSCPs = that support an L4S service - traffic marked with ECT(1) goes into the = L4S queue if and only if that traffic is also marked with a DSCP that is = on the operator's DSCPs-for-L4S list. I take it, in the latter case, that this increases the cases in which = L4S endpoints would need to detect that they are not receiving L4S = signals, but RFC-3168 signals. The current lack of such a mechanism = therefore remains concerning. For comparison, SCE inherently retains = such a mechanism by putting the RFC-3168 and high-fidelity signals on = different ECN codepoints. So I'm pleased to hear that the L4S team will be at the hackathon with a = demo setup. Hopefully we will be able to obtain comparative test = results, using the same test scripts as we use on SCE, and also insert = an RFC-3168 single queue AQM into their network to demonstrate what = actually happens in that case. I think that the results will be = illuminating for all concerned. - Jonathan Morton=