From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.toke.dk (mail.toke.dk [IPv6:2a00:7660:6da:2001::664]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57D343B2A4; Sun, 17 Mar 2019 17:51:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Toke =?utf-8?Q?H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1552859493; bh=hvpZhqLh23beD/GH08uYsrjhXDUURhVq4IiuutpnKFA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=DadGI8XoGr1DzmIoH86GftbCLdPjQYPX7Bxk+07khsNYqqO7bevZD6COT/owbWjhu mvTBH4PIea7Z+fFrkP0bw0KSd27jzd4xKreL6c/qvNXNVuFUmMCOg+0jqI0TKKToHC H06GM6gfvEe3i5AlmTkmVkOLNwmezISFnxd+UDwoxw4sO35W5P6pGDQNnL6mGMOd+H SAiZir8D+O9ihjWp+shL8LVAL0NflEhIernaUpZElOB+t15TWFgj4u7hamZUZGauNW CXnS2me0jpzahGaXGjytddYXwSv1Xl7aTzNWDI0LgaN3afMHYeaCscmpOX3DEhZW6p GtuTwIAt3cw2A== To: Luca Muscariello , Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: "ecn-sane\@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat In-Reply-To: References: <1E80578D-A589-4CA0-9015-B03B63042355@gmx.de> <27FA673A-2C4C-4652-943F-33FAA1CF1E83@gmx.de> <1552669283.555112988@apps.rackspace.com> <7029DA80-8B83-4775-8261-A4ADD2CF34C7@akamai.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 22:51:31 +0100 X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <87tvg1tbj0.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104 X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 21:51:34 -0000 Luca Muscariello writes: > To me there is substantial difference from something like fq_codel or > fq_pie where service differentiation is largely implicit > and approches largely based on explicit marking. > > Approaches based on marking face technical and non technical challenges > that have been largely mentioned in these lists. > > Fq_codel has a ton of litterature behind both theoretical and experimental > and it is something very close to optimality, in terms of completion time > and latency. > > Fq_codel also incentivizes the development of better congestion control as > the reward is immediate. It also makes Internet performance > predictable. > > Once we know that, the logical approach would be to try to approximate th= at > thing when the full mechanism is not possible because of a variety of > limitations. > > This is the case in some DC switches that implement AFD+priority fair > queueing at 40Gbps. > > Fq_codel has an outstanding footprint in terms of deployment. > Iliad deployed SFQ in 2005 nation wide and Fq_codel as soon as it was > available in France and is the second largest ISP. > Iliad/Free controls the development of both the home GW and the DSLAM. > They have recently started to commercialize 10Gbps to the home using > switched Ethernet. > I=E2=80=99m very tempted to test it. > > Kudos to them for being able to prove it is possible as long as you contr= ol > the development of your equipment. > > A logical next step to me seems to push chipcos to build fq_codel in > silicon. > It is totally feasible. > > If on the other hand we say that we can achieve all fq_codel provides with > current chipsets we=E2=80=99ll never create the incentives to make progre= ss. +100! -Toke