Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet
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From: "Toke Høiland-Jørgensen" <toke@toke.dk>
To: "David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com>,
	Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: "ecn-sane\@lists.bufferbloat.net"
	<ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	tsvwg IETF list <tsvwg@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] per-flow scheduling
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:49:39 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87v9wq87zg.fsf@toke.dk> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1561671061.42671176@apps.rackspace.com>

"David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com> writes:

> It's even worse. The FCC got focused on max speeds back in the day as
> its only way to think about Internet Access service. And I was serving
> on the FCC Technological Advisory Committee and also in its Spectrum
> Policy Task Force, then later involved in the rather confused
> discussions of Network Neutrality, where again "speed" in the "up-to"
> sense was the sole framing of the discussion.
>  
> Because it was mostly lawyers and lobbyists (not network engineers),
> this focus on max speed as the sole measure of quality ended up with a
> huge distortion of the discussion, strongly encouraged by the
> lobbyists who love confusion.
>  
> That said, max speed plays a role at all time scales in minimizing
> response time, but queuing delay has no constituency, even though its
> impact is FAR worse in real situations.
>  
> If the FCC and regulators (or even the DoD communications management
> layers) ever start talking about queueing delay in shared network
> services, I will die of shock.
>  
> But we did have one HUGE temporary success. The speed test at DSL
> Reports measures lag under load, and calls it bufferbloat, and gives a
> reasonably scaled score.

The Netflix test at fast.com does as well now (although it's under the
"more info" button, so not as visible by default).

-Toke

  reply	other threads:[~2019-06-28  7:49 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-06-19 14:12 [Ecn-sane] " Bob Briscoe
2019-06-19 14:20 ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Kyle Rose
2019-06-21  6:59 ` [Ecn-sane] " Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-21  9:33   ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-21 20:37     ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-22 19:50       ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 20:47         ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-22 22:03           ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-22 22:09           ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 23:07             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-24 18:57               ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 19:31                 ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-24 19:50                   ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 20:14                     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-06-25 21:05                       ` David P. Reed
2019-06-24 21:25                   ` Luca Muscariello
2019-06-26 12:48             ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-26 16:31               ` David P. Reed
2019-06-26 16:53                 ` David P. Reed
2019-06-27  7:54                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-27  7:49                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2019-06-27 20:33                   ` Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-27 21:31                     ` David P. Reed
2019-06-28  7:49                       ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen [this message]
2019-06-27  7:53                 ` Bless, Roland (TM)
2019-06-22 21:10         ` Brian E Carpenter
2019-06-22 22:25           ` David P. Reed
2019-06-22 22:30             ` Luca Muscariello
2019-07-17 21:33 ` [Ecn-sane] " Sebastian Moeller
2019-07-17 22:18   ` David P. Reed
2019-07-17 22:34     ` David P. Reed
2019-07-17 23:23       ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18  0:20         ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18  5:30           ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-18 15:02         ` David P. Reed
2019-07-18 16:06           ` Dave Taht
2019-07-18  4:31     ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-18 15:52       ` David P. Reed
2019-07-18 18:12         ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Dave Taht
2019-07-18  5:24     ` [Ecn-sane] " Jonathan Morton
2019-07-22 13:44       ` Bob Briscoe
2019-07-23  5:00         ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-23 11:35           ` [Ecn-sane] CNQ cheap-nasty-queuing (was per-flow queuing) Luca Muscariello
2019-07-23 20:14           ` [Ecn-sane] per-flow scheduling Bob Briscoe
2019-07-23 22:24             ` Jonathan Morton
2019-07-23 15:12         ` [Ecn-sane] [tsvwg] " Kyle Rose
2019-07-25 19:25           ` Holland, Jake
2019-07-27 15:35             ` Kyle Rose
2019-07-27 19:42               ` Jonathan Morton

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