From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x333.google.com (mail-wm1-x333.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::333]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70B843B29E for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 04:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x333.google.com with SMTP id a184so7866040wma.2 for ; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:34:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=dSJx1NCF/lyRP3Ud4MM/1yAv1u8veEftehq37kTldhE=; b=Drbi6rcMiUEhXUK3D71VsrLXbQyZEFvdLiqh9d37+Oije19VZCoziQFE4KnnZ1DRmh zbB10XX+iC1KSkkXcV2nt9VS98lQDRPyIBtgNVmP2KISdYD2I/Mrtps72WutZAfS3FJh vD3Zw4WwEsP+FVmBlG203Q1kc3MzOnmwU+7tiQ9r/sr4CzSzPqksxIKLaFJRf7qq2uRw eoLUx30+tT1F4MjL7zqTy1cbq2YpTMPHnpp12eVwmjg0JZ06E9w429iOdcyqW14H1Oc6 xhMdEYTghpppHIQGJvNkbybh0PMyvhLGYoL+pCXtJ4fzVoH5D/u/mLgzBndhp3fdci8F pmtg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=dSJx1NCF/lyRP3Ud4MM/1yAv1u8veEftehq37kTldhE=; b=HzNKyIGqnGA/X3kLClz2sEJI0ymRWOtD+Byc9VTJ5Yd0ffMdNcGpVpRb6hNF2uqwMu wHiSYtRkgbYTCdrYYJ+i3Q1mRsorbeUWtwvg9wcTiw5jKrg6mWF7CdiY6YHnXrsdO36c 6yXxQDeGbwbYslkIhHMkLFJ+8iHOWJjABCDRl+DV0JxagzlOFuDH8lyLDnJk7x52igHG oUYgwM6bAc0CDXW3Gv6dCST9MGZkL12coB7zaYv2Ux2WOwkINUXZRUUNWdBiJOvcFnkG j2c2+uMlQVit3izdBpy6tcFHLR0JMXeK/g3rvG6cSE3aBgUltDeaMZUJwkhOOgNvcTFz NEYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVlcwRx44e/yA3PHjj6eVx7O6APO/OeDhafMpQWwacYMfyfUKVv AN7VSYV5gFarEf2lSRJdyrs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwcB6+oz4pInXGSJe1Po9MbgDNPdkC7YziNgimMhkqkas9mkniqCMqKTnaGdbmZmxLJHivvPA== X-Received: by 2002:a1c:7e51:: with SMTP id z78mr10767844wmc.82.1553502892543; Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:34:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.8.114] (ip-37-188-164-92.eurotel.cz. [37.188.164.92]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t15sm24148340wmt.2.2019.03.25.01.34.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Mar 2019 01:34:51 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 09:34:49 +0100 Cc: Sebastian Moeller , ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <907D3152-4AD5-4551-AA6A-46FF9CA567DE@gmail.com> References: <3E9C6E74-E335-472B-8745-6020F7CDBA01@gmx.de> To: Mikael Abrahamsson X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] robustness against attack? X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2019 08:34:53 -0000 > On 25 Mar, 2019, at 8:16 am, Mikael Abrahamsson = wrote: >=20 > Do people on this email list think we're trying to trick you when = we're saying that FQ won't be available anytime soon on a lot of = platforms that need this kind of AQM? Well, I don't. I recognise that most high-capacity links will end up = with single-queue AQM, because that's what's already out there in = hardware (though it's rarely turned on so far). I'm still keen to see = good FQ used where feasible, and in ways that make local sense. That's why I've put some effort into making SCE play nicely with = single-queue AQMs, since our initial conversation on that point where I = was still assuming AIAD response to SCE. That is, I now have non-AIAD = SCE responses which should (theoretically) converge to an RTT-fair state = over a single queue. (One of them is the DCTCP response, which L4S = folks should be intimately familiar with by now.) If you'll recall, my = initial workaround was simply to=20 Experimentation will be needed to check whether my theorising actually = works in practice, but I'm not exactly ignoring the problem. - Jonathan Morton