From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from olivedrab.birch.relay.mailchannels.net (olivedrab.birch.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.209.135]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BEAD3B2A4 for ; Tue, 9 Mar 2021 12:50:45 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: totalchoicehosting|x-authuser|slblake+petri-meat.com@pawpaw.tchmachines.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1B7D9221B0; Tue, 9 Mar 2021 17:50:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pawpaw.tchmachines.com (100-96-11-30.trex.outbound.svc.cluster.local [100.96.11.30]) (Authenticated sender: totalchoicehosting) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 3A446921FE4; Tue, 9 Mar 2021 17:50:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: totalchoicehosting|x-authuser|slblake+petri-meat.com@pawpaw.tchmachines.com Received: from pawpaw.tchmachines.com (pawpaw.tchmachines.com [208.76.80.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 100.96.11.30 (trex/6.0.2); Tue, 09 Mar 2021 17:50:39 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: totalchoicehosting|x-authuser|slblake+petri-meat.com@pawpaw.tchmachines.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: totalchoicehosting X-Language-Zesty: 490e3781291de884_1615312229791_105980611 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1615312229790:3650875164 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1615312229790 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=petri-meat.com; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version: Content-Type:References:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=PTHcn6X9M+VDE27NXIdxkSKAKSbBUkCaDWA/clmkNjM=; b=ZMm5zDWtl/hPlt+EQJrY0M3yN3 Ifb/0O9aTW+zz3XaB8th5IbyYl9pbVjl/zhe2FBwWzNfK8TjWlC0E72u8Uz6FQkz9lRkkZDEKUivF JbaAFpD7NJe4pnLQLMYCHATDd; Received: from [136.56.88.61] (port=46352 helo=axion.home.arpa) by pawpaw.tchmachines.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1lJgUz-0004IR-Lt; Tue, 09 Mar 2021 12:50:25 -0500 Message-ID: <9cbf2c365c0ad635b6f08311d35e0681aa173af7.camel@petri-meat.com> From: Steven Blake To: Jonathan Morton Cc: ECN-Sane Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2021 12:50:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: <7d423efd8a380e91ae5bdf2922d38ae3c5a243a8.camel@petri-meat.com> References: <7ff9063df5c5e05420ef47245becb77a2de80f2f.camel@petri-meat.com> <1cb500b5cff9a570f71a9b92096f5f279f4a27e7.camel@heistp.net> <0B2ABDF5-A4B0-418B-A6C3-90FE8E4F20BC@gmail.com> <7d423efd8a380e91ae5bdf2922d38ae3c5a243a8.camel@petri-meat.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.34.4 (3.34.4-1.fc31) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: slblake+petri-meat.com@pawpaw.tchmachines.com Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] IETF 110 quick summary X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2021 17:50:46 -0000 On Tue, 2021-03-09 at 12:31 -0500, Steven Blake wrote: > Their whole safety plan depends on the claim that Classic RFC 3168 > ECN > is not deployed (except in fq_codel on the edge; who cares? they can > patch their code). If that were the case, it would make more sense > for > them to try to move classic ECN to historic and redefine ECT(0) to > signal L4S traffic (ala DCTCP). Actually, that is the ideal outcome. ECT(0) signals ECT-Capable, ECT(1) and CE signal two levels of congestion. In other words, SCE everywhere. Maybe that is an argument that you can throw at them: if it is safe to ignore classic ECN, might as well move straight to SCE with non-ECT traffic shunted off to a separate queue(s). Regards, // Steve