From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D0203B2A4 for ; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 03:52:18 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1566892337; bh=da4njkG5YM6MyKmLYRIMA3C5wouzcI6pFwyBbsJxnPI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=ZCf27VGTtNyhbbZHxDxzwGex639W8d+T8yn0qOaSFpjrm8IXWU6bNLtXqBpSaJ0Ui y9RoPuLzuhIBHy9Hed1DgYCG7qC4BcoazX3y1y6qKM+Ncpc5iOkzBzP7HoY29Y/k54 2S1hcuyFYi0zWZ2mNuymMFuHl1V4iE+HNDG1lJlU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [10.11.12.32] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MyKHc-1iPRVd1gY0-00yjlG; Tue, 27 Aug 2019 09:52:17 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <9E5E5296-EF62-46C4-8AD5-F93D5A03BDB7@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 09:52:16 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , ECN-Sane Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1444CD38-2455-41DF-A7FF-17FFC1039E36@gmx.de> <9E5E5296-EF62-46C4-8AD5-F93D5A03BDB7@gmail.com> To: Jonathan Morton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:IoZ5Myx8X6sbI5VCHWy0FO8or0wnqftKF7bADzalKVOitirOURU L4Ge2+By65o7sTUq2Br+y/Wf+OTw4Z6kz6ffkiRwh5Z5p81lj3vgJolPaetjiwn6FRjJ2zn wNAbYUG1wHQXcuTAlU7LHoE/wQmNEv02k1QM3E91knLnij7GEiDVD0F6GUWRIIk1mcm9SNc 8gAMm3qrJ0xHMWZLnyaww== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:YKglnrOdRJg=:S+YtkHov/4pzqSarsZy5v1 jxjNRoJ1hY5TK5kObZvIchWIX/jwSaE/1f2T43W2+Irybd0Cc/xHwvRTEwViEl4atSg09ADdF f/sCBxjyhZ/FU9DSZiQJy8KOT5W6rYzmn9C6bAB9pjrhymv1xd1gqCNRomQMk3gt8Mr27U30j COtJtjWgTo3sM8KXXzHKEV/tFyv5P+gpEOiIYYJywL0H4+7S6AWnFPMM1eAaQWvP5CZ2XjDCS VMtmQoC9AddKo9z0AapgETXECaI8FZqsjYsHis92VFdhOqmSKSXp/LViGgDIDlg/3qLtCyygd Wrm7RgHWiY3vFR2nM9p9Ao5NrHd3JCzA1m/BIIscY8xA5TUZjC7nx/zvBhnLIs/5sQcVEhY8o z+bu17132Su14z9svfirYdq8etTulgC58OeZCEfEevp/BOCJ7X+Gm4NdLoFj0od5/8LO7tIFB oLIKUrG2CprMHMCaTIg0T8RyAqyOnmOGDlk4CklO3CxMqmphU5kZXUzkmVAGBu3gxpXM33rSM LJyXtEPacOWXhT2REPvpNbTe07w1ez2fbUQCqOZ1fisIz36WR0FKe3rKpDJEM0eOt2SeibOtV 0zTwOXjjaWyXTZ1La/WlMyzxY9blXHt/3JFjE6bNoOEhg0M63BS6JiIHyNIWQRT3+XoMO490b I+ql+WuMpBRFSbH9pvZgMLyIHnRpcJaeL1r4rbOYrXGTmUks+h6GQutS0rFu8OcL/KBUKhhTm nYbXXOVNl402F50CNKYlsDFth8I4SvpERyxdk99k0gTTrzq0r+zphgYKQZvKf7drMLpwVuet8 LTuEgjeuhY+zhb+HW9nqg69bIEPsuLKKyY2prBfIBCtX52ePi0X4JGrGcoADH2Pf7yqPwvUEA qiun+I4Ik8BQKoYEy9NOIxKnPmCnSXoTsaQV8WAguxBEbL4NkSIebcJzbijx7PbP9WXeRRKgU Yu+iN0Y+kbBvILCwEJyXE4PfDmPAgfrqiaTm6pzKMm63C0HNJkkeGr4Q05PVQx7Itzy72NC7N A6NJmUrJDIXwxPkwIujLOtkexXfm8ZqKruktz6dPCixuDvnDC6nXfmYTH/5HR0xC9+MAKfB3S h5TA3jBu+FHkX/74aLydf5cOHahs5bBwbQSqM3rQL1O2YJFattFhLYn6VDRHhGCD+yuBVxY4s jVJKM= Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] osx ecn X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2019 07:52:19 -0000 Hi Jonathan, > On Aug 27, 2019, at 09:05, Jonathan Morton = wrote: >=20 >> On 27 Aug, 2019, at 9:58 am, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>=20 >>> 0 connection fell back to non-ECN due to excessive CE-markings >>=20 >> I wonder whether macosx would be able to gracefully survive a = misclassification into a L4S/NQB queue at a dual queue AQM? What is the = threshold here? >=20 > No, I don't think so. L4S assumes the DCTCP response function which = stabilises at 2 CE marks per RTT, which is still a fairly low percentage = if the cwnd is high. I doubt that would be detected as "excessive" in = this context. Also, because the RFC-3168 response to CE is much = sharper, the actual marking rate will be lower, as the flow won't stay = in the saturating regime where marking occurs. >=20 > - Jonathan Morton thanks for the detailed answer. Best Regards Sebastian=