From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com (mail-lf1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6B923B29E; Sat, 16 Mar 2019 18:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id u68so9207514lff.7; Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:03:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ES81j4RlWBj5b5uOH9JgcwaxZhQVdG0elZF1sAe4PxE=; b=lPzSXFZJK/7VfgsF+xYDFL/kDckrUGCXxbPmNE+Ht0O6h9HEq+eHeby8EwHYZPLP0j RLkJM1sxKyde2txan+1Dyx6+Cz4vIrbySARbmW7K53Y+Rd/K4dFX+tuQPTYJFd5mxi0G XjyuqlfMyYtfq9c0QO5nrP5MIEGT7UNf/SmiGsCXAEoA3zUPZZfuWZf2L7qGhAsx3fo/ t+sVW5kffkPNuY6mXvSr8LJtvF6ven111xcUKKIpJSBlnEnrEzb0ACMX77XoAeHF0tcP fi7whcc4ZqlLoZO5qu3avzvrF5Y8uhTXf7+sRaFuYQzrm/sQj62+KC94QVS3cCjO7kra P2wA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=ES81j4RlWBj5b5uOH9JgcwaxZhQVdG0elZF1sAe4PxE=; b=mTZJ3Fda0APXHW6227aCwIbTa6VncHsVaZ7syex/XCX419+iHbxpJ/UAoZ+u84RbBX wpCsLjUSqjqQT99aQOkiS+HZHmpX6mBnKFO1JvAZjXDaPjDZ3o5FiJIWvue7tBVHCbjP pmcAGieF2e8+9KxLIn167andmJag9CAgKUaF3vXE7NfxC68cHT/3941WDjINm2SZOQhi CtKnSGxyRkuZMdCCVt4OPUMa7c9OY+2J2n//7UJVFJyphrJTb2Pz8S8zwLU6MqP02L2O MN2iYkZU78Y9fFbTl1kGV8+jo25cAwPP8RxVoGQ2hAMTG5yIn6VBIF5kGOVujcQN1dNO gj5A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWlKusuPmo2ul4vdl59yi75PQyd85NPbP27qQFy1s54QNen4JKU oZK29U7EMML84BC48sCWkwM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyjKeY4jPQNMJo8/bmbQaqZDgPto+qO+KAobmKQVYU53uIiTQrut3LkPfrwM1LCv8iIhb9DIQ== X-Received: by 2002:a19:81c9:: with SMTP id c192mr6067236lfd.108.1552773832894; Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-227-44-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.227.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a16sm1131721lfl.86.2019.03.16.15.03.51 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <7029DA80-8B83-4775-8261-A4ADD2CF34C7@akamai.com> Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2019 00:03:49 +0200 Cc: Mikael Abrahamsson , "David P. Reed" , "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1E80578D-A589-4CA0-9015-B03B63042355@gmx.de> <27FA673A-2C4C-4652-943F-33FAA1CF1E83@gmx.de> <1552669283.555112988@apps.rackspace.com> <7029DA80-8B83-4775-8261-A4ADD2CF34C7@akamai.com> To: "Holland, Jake" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Ecn-sane] [Bloat] [iccrg] Fwd: [tcpPrague] Implementation and experimentation of TCP Prague/L4S hackaton at IETF104 X-BeenThere: ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of explicit congestion notification's impact on the Internet List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2019 22:03:54 -0000 > On 16 Mar, 2019, at 11:38 pm, Holland, Jake = wrote: >=20 > SCE needs a lot of details filled in, but it's so much cleaner that it > seems to me there's reasonably obvious answers to all (or almost all) = of > those detail questions, and because the semantics are so much cleaner, > it's much easier to tell it's non-harmful. And we're actively working on filling in those details. They haven't = yet made it as far as an I-D, partly because we'd like to do at least = some preliminary testing first. > where does BBR fit into all this? The present version of BBR, which I've actually seen, ignores ECN = completely. I'm told that the new version which I haven't yet seen, = does *something* with ECN, but I'm unclear on what. I think it'll be up = to the BBR developers to decide how to incorporate SCE information, = using conventional TCPs as a guide as to what is reasonable - or to = ignore it, which is also a valid design choice. - Jonathan Morton